Coyote Problem

 If I use a shock collar on him it will only be me pushing the button. I will listen to trainers and learn from them, I will read books and instructions, I will seek advice, but I will not allow anyone else to actually shock my dog.

 I think the proper recall that works in all circumstances is not possible, at least for a high drive hunter. His recall is as perfect as it will probably ever be. If I see the prey first before he engages he will return, once he commits having him stop and return is pretty unfeasable. I have spoken with many who hunt this breed and they agree that there is no such thing as the "perfect" recall once prey is involved.

 Knowing this when I got him has caused me to work harder on the recall than on anything and he is better than most as many tell me they will not return at all if they scent prey or sight prey, Hektor will unless he is fully engaged in pursuit.

 I am thinking of trying the vibration recall with a collar and work with that before using any kind of shock.

dgriego

I think the proper recall that works in all circumstances is not possible, at least for a high drive hunter. His recall is as perfect as it will probably ever be. If I see the prey first before he engages he will return, once he commits having him stop and return is pretty unfeasable. I have spoken with many who hunt this breed and they agree that there is no such thing as the "perfect" recall once prey is involved.

Knowing this when I got him has caused me to work harder on the recall than on anything and he is better than most as many tell me they will not return at all if they scent prey or sight prey, Hektor will unless he is fully engaged in pursuit.

I believe you, Kenya is the same way.  She has very high drives of all kinds, that is what was selected for in the blood lines she comes from.  This actually works to my advantage as far as training and doing what German Shepherds are bred to do.  However, once she is after prey, she won't be called off, at least not without some serious training (which would probably require a shock collar).  Luckily, our only prey are rabbits and squirrels, no coyotes, so I don't sweat it too much.  I really don't think a recall and calling a dog off prey while in drive are the same thing, just like I don't think a "drop it!" during tug play is the same as an "out" during Schutzhund.  Also, it's not exactly easy to proof a recall into being able to call a dog off prey!  I guess for me it's possible since I don't have to wait long before a squirrel shows up, but yeah if Hektor were my dog I wouldn't exactly be seeking out coyotes to practice on.

Since he does have such a good recall it would be a shame to leash him only because of the coyotes. 

So I was thinking about your predicament last night and I remembered when I lived in a area with a lot of wild turkeys. Rory used to haul butt after them and try to pull their feathers out. Anyhoo incase you wanted to try alternative methods before the shock collar maybe you'll find it worthwhile to leash him all the time. I know its a pain, especially if your just throwing the trash out BUT you will be able to correct his behavior faster because you'll feel him pull the leash versus the shock collar will be used when he has already taken after the coyote and it will stop him in his tracks. I've found its easier to communicate to the dog when they are just about to act out versus right in the middle of the action. You can stop that GO before he....well goes. He might think

Plus he's a Dogo Argentino and if he's anyhting like my pit bull the shock collar isnt going to provide as much effectivness because of their will and inbred trait to ignore pain. With such stubborn breeds its easier to control the mind then the body by force or shock collar. Like I said, the leash idea is going to take much more effort on your part but I think it will be more effective, you could just hang a leash by every door.

I typed a super long response and then it got dumped somehow - so I think the e-collar is a good idea with intense training.  I understand that he will not be as sensitive to the pain as other breeds but it isn't really the pain that teaches them.  We spent oodles of time teaching Bugsy with our invisible fence.  He too has a INTENSE prey drive and has never shown any indication that 'pain' is anything he has experienced.  After about 3 months of work he became 100% reliable with the fence.  This is for a year now I suppose and I still am amazed that it works.  For him the sound before the shock is the key.

Also Ed's suggestion of giving him a 'hunt' command and then having a 'no hunting' command is excellent.  This has made our walks doable.

However I will never trust Bugsy off leash.  For him once he has the scent and KNOWS he's untethered you don't have a chance.  Were he off leash and spot a deer he stay on that deer for as long as he had to, with no other thought than catching it.

You are dealing with what could be dangerous for him if the coyotes are in a pack - I'd do what I had to, to make sure my dog was safe

good luck 

Obviously, what you need is a LGD to trail Hektor. And maybe another dogo, just to better the odds.

I have no serious ideas, as this is far beyond by knowledge or experience, but I have to admire Hektor. I have a fantastic image of him plowing straight into a coyote.

 What is the preferred method for other dogo owners? 

I think ecollar is a good solution as well.  But you have to train the dog on what he is to do when he warned with the collar.  The biggest mistake people make is to slap a collar on a dog and think that the shock is magically going to make him return.  Without being trained properly he will just shake his head and run faster and further from you no knowing what just happened to him.

 Find a good trainer or learn your self and train, train and then proof..

 Good luck, we are getting Coyote's by us now too and I am so fearful of them getting my pug.  I don't worry about the Swissy since he is probably 4 times the Coyote's size but I really don't know much about Caoyotes so I should do some research.

Other Dogo owners say to "trash" break him using a shock collar. That is what they do to teach them not to chase the wrong game. They also say that he should be first taught what game is "okay" before trash breaking him as it can cause them to not go after any game at all.

 word of advisory... i dont own a Dogo but i own the next best thing to one.... Kaydee is wearing an invisible fence collar and she respects that fence and its boundary.. kinda.

She has invented a new kind of fence fighting. when she hears the warning beep she knows SOMETHING is going to bite her.... so she seeks it out. there is a trench that follows the i-fence, dug by Kaydee. the only thing that keeps her off of it is ME standing there saying "NO Bad Dog! - Go lie down! Stay!" but once i am gone from her sight she creeps back up to the wire and waits for it.... she hasnt figured out its the collar. she is looking at DIRT. she is biting DIRT. and FIGHTING with dirt! trying to dig up some invisible monster that keeps biting her. if i take the collar off and she hears no beep she still watches that area of the fence but will not cross the boundary... she's utterly mad!

Given that bulldogs are damn near as smart as any kid if you zap him every time he sees a yote you MIGHT send him the wrong signal...
in his mind he might think "Holy crap!! they have long distance teeth!! that's it! i'm going in for the kill this time!" 

anyway... FYI .. bulldog's can be trained with those collars but i wouldnt recommend them for correction. this is a fighting breed.... you'll have to do like someone else suggested and just keep him on a lead at your side and give the correction yourself.

i may be totally off the mark here, but this is MY experience, and oh what a learning experience it has been!! 

DumDog

Given that bulldogs are damn near as smart as any kid if you zap him every time he sees a yote you MIGHT send him the wrong signal...
in his mind he might think "Holy crap!! they have long distance teeth!! that's it! i'm going in for the kill this time!" 

 

anyway... FYI .. bulldog's can be trained with those collars but i wouldnt recommend them for correction. this is a fighting breed.... you'll have to do like someone else suggested and just keep him on a lead at your side and give the correction yourself.

i may be totally off the mark here, but this is MY experience, and oh what a learning experience it has been!! 

 Good advice Dum and very valid. Dogo's are bred to be insensitive to pain, much like the fighting breeds and many even say pain is more of a stimulate to them than a deterent. For now we are using a long lead on afternoon walks, I am allowing him loose but he is pulling a long line, for evenings and mornings (when we see them the most) he is leashed.

 This morning the little stinkers sat outside our fence and teased him. He was not very happy about that.

i'm curious... is coyote hunting legal there?

DumDog

i'm curious... is coyote hunting legal there?

 Yes it is, they are classified as varmits I believe

So,,,,,,,,,,,,,I probably shoudn't get into this conversation...because I've been in a ton of arguments on this forum about shock collars ( right Glenda??????? )   I have one for Bubblegum, we had one for Ollie.  I keep it on her when we are outside and when I walk her.  I DO realize that she can take me anywhere she really wants to go, and I keep it handy just in case.  I have not used it in a long long time....but I have it if I need it.  I think if they are used the right way and by the right people they are an excellent tool.      As mentioned above, its not about pain...its about the "feeling" and the dog feeling it and remembering what they are NOT supposed to be doing.  They can save a dogs life...keep him out of a lot of trouble and in a situation such as yours... I think its a good idea to try. Either that or keep Hector tied up.  Thats not a good option as you stated. 

if it was me in this situation then i would train with the collar in ALL aspects of obedience, not just for coyote deterrence.. otherwise like i said..... if he sees a yote and get shocked, a bulldog will begin to associate the coyote with the shock and he's probably gonna get very very angry.. which is bulldog nature.  

Like Xerxes said coyotes can lure a dog into the pack where he is attacked by multiple coyotes.  When I lived in the Texas Panhandle a friend on a ranch had a pack of dogs at their house.  At night a lone coyote would try to lure a dog out after him.  If he succeeded the dog chased after it and was attacked by many.  My friend lost many dogs in this manner.  Hektor sounds like he can handle a single one, but I would worry about many.

 Same Texas Panhandle area, one rancher had a pack of dogs solely for hunting coyotes.  He had big tough mixed breeds, hounds, and even greyhounds and regularly used them for hunting and killing coyotes.  He'd hang coyote body after body on each post of the barbed wire fence along the road.  It was gross to see 30-50 bodies gradually rotting.