growling

DPU

luvmyswissy

 PS:  I don't like my dog growling either and I have said before "he's not allowed"!!  But what I learned with resource guarding is that the underlying problem needs to be corrected and the growling goes away.  If you use aggression type techniques, you will get the same negative response.  Remember he is afraid you are going to take HIS MOST VALUABLE RESOURCE - his FOOD!! 

Absolutely correct!  Identify the underlying problem and fullfill that need.  Luvmyswissy, I can see the protocal working for a dog who is resource guarding against humans.  A much bigger problem is resource guarding against other dogs which seems to always escalates into a fight.  So if you fix one it does not mean you fix the other and the OP will probably experience this.  So that is why I always work toward not making the dog's everyday foods and treats "HIS MOST VALUABLE RESOURCE". 

I can only speak from my expierence.  I can't dictate what he finds to be his most valuable resource.   For him its, food and his resting places.  

I manage food in my house and watch resting places.  I don't feed River anywhere near other dogs or people for that matter.  I can approach him and touch him but I wouldn't trust him with others.  I manage all resources and how River interacts with anything of value.  I do believe that if I had the proper protocol when River was just 8 weeks old, he would be ok today.  But waiting until things got so bad, and he was 10 months old then, working with him for over 2 years I know he is not 100% reliable.  I will always manage him and the inviroment when food is around.

There are occassions though that food or toys and my dogs end up on the same side of the fence (so to speak).  For the most part he is good about it.  He is a very dog friendly dog, so I think he is more tolerant of his same kind.  Once in a while he may give them a little growl, and they back off.   

espencer

My positive suggestion to help the op is NOT to let the dog to growl AT ANY time, if you let your dog growl you are giving him permission to become aggressive, in MY OWN personal experience, i have always stop the growling from several dogs that are not mine and in MY OWN personal experience the dog has never gone "only for the bite", so for me that never happens, stop the growl and you stop the behavior, i suggest the op to read more about dog psychology since dog training only is not the same in my opinion

So stop the growl and you will be teaching your dog that aggression behavior is not allowed, i hope this tips help you with your problem 

AMEN!!!!

So, if one of my dogs growls at another, you agree that I should step in and teach them not to growl?  Sorry, but that growl might be the only warning I get that someone is ticked at someone else, and without the growl, I don't know to step in and say something. And without my saying something things could get mighty unpleasant mighty quickly.  And even with a human, there is a growl and then there is a growl.  Heck, I've rolled over on a dog in my sleep and the little "growl" has alerted me to the fact that I was laying on them.  There is an agressive, "you've ticked me off" growl and then there's the "hey...you're in (or on) my space!" growl.

Again, in this particular situation, we are talking about a 7 week old pup who should still be with his litter and growling at his littermates who WILL steal his share of the food.  The suggestions given for teaching the dog to TRUST that you will give and not take are the best ones in this thread.

My dog growls at me when we play tug.  It's NOT aggression or resource guarding, because in the middle of the growl I can say "drop it" and he drops the toy, right away, no questions asked, at my feet.  I think he's doing it because he's wound up and overexcited.  When it happens, while I don't extinguish the growl, I do stop the game and replace the toy with another, just to give him time to settle down and because I don't want him to get too used to growling at me.  I truly feel as though he IS communicating through the growl, he's saying "I am getting too excited here, how do I handle this?"  Because I can't reason with him, I handle it for him.  The growl is stopped, but it's not extinguished...important difference in my house. 

Exactly.  There is a growl and then there is a GROWL. 

Sheba the last couple of days has been making some wierd noises when she's asleep....kind of a growl/snore/???......she's sound asleep so who knows what that's all about.....but it happens when NO one is close to her.

I guess I don't get worked up about a non-growl kind of growl because they've never offered a REAL growl my way....or any other humans way either.

I would love to see some kind of data that supports the theory that if you stop a dog from growling, he will proceed directly to the bite. I'm not disagreeing, I would like to see something more about it, though...

I don't mind my dogs growling at each other, or in play, even with me, but I don't allow them to growl at ME as a form of control. I don't let them get into the mindset of "Hey, I don't like what you're doing lady, so I'm going to get nasty with you so I can control you and make you stop." If my adult dog growled at me, I think it would actually scare me. If it's a warning that says, "If you don't stop what you're doing, I'm going to bite you", Yeah, I'd be scared. I decide what happens here. He does not. That's why I stop that behavior as soon as it happens in puppyhood. They soon learn that they don't have "the say" about resources.

Now, I'm not talking about a fear/aggressive dog. I'm talking about your every day normal family pet who isn't aggressive but thinks the food is his and will growl to keep me away from it. No. That's not going to happen here.

Anyway, I'd really like to know where this idea comes from... Any studies or information on this?
 

Carla, I've seen this with fosters.  Where the growl has been extinguished and you just flat don't know when you might get bitten.  Those dogs scare the heck right out of me.  No studies and no data, just my personal experience.

It doesn't scare me in the least when I get a growl in the middle of the night.....heck, whoever I just rolled over on is sound asleep too, or was until I parked my fanny of their paw.  It's not an agressive or mean growl, more like the grunt I'd get from the hubby if I rolled over on top of him.  Major difference between that and a "real" growl.

Like i said, in my opinion and experience allowing the growl is allowing the aggression to escalate, from there you have more chances to get bitten that when you didnt allow the dog to growl

Example:

Sign of aggression                                      % Chances to get Bitten

Dog submissive                                                         0%

Dog Growling                                                            50%

Dog Growling and baring teeth                                    75%

Again, this is not scientific, is my personal experience, if you stop the growl, you take the chances down of getting bit from 50% to 0%, if you dont stop the growl you will be in front of a dog that has 50% chances if biting you, the other dog, etc, Dont stop the growl and 50% chances are closer to 100% than 0%

Dogs dont focus on noises, they focus on behavior ,once you stop a growl, the dog KNOWS you mean the behavior he is showing, dogs dont think that what you are doing is that you dont like the noise but you still accept the behavior, which could be the base to think that if you stop a growl you will have your dog going directly for the bite

Another reason why people could think that way is the misconception of "if you stop the growl you dont need to do anything else", example: a guy never takes his dog for a walk, the dog gets frustrated and aggressive, if the guy stops the growl that might avoid the aggression of the dog to escalate  but never resolved the root of the problem (exercise) and of course the dog will still be a time bomb

Stopping the growl is just a fast way to decrease the level of aggression at that moment and avoid an accident but of course you MUST check what is causing the growl, if another dog is invading personal space then you stop the growl AND remove the dog that was invading the personal space; with the exercise example, you stop the growl AND take you dog right away for a walk, etc 

Of course if the dog growls when he is playing you know that the behavior BEHIND the dog is not aggression, no need to correct that 

Stopping the growl is just a fast way to decrease the level of aggression at that moment and avoid an accident but of course you MUST check what is causing the growl, if another dog is invading personal space then you stop the growl AND remove the dog that was invading the personal space; with the exercise example, you stop the growl AND take you dog right away for a walk, etc 

spence,  You continually state that stopping the growl is the anwser, that is your suggestion to the OP.   But you don't give any advice to how to work at that.  Your blanket statement could leave a dog owner thinking they need to get pysical or be aggressive towards the dog - is that what your inplying?  This is a puppy how do you suggest the OP "stop the growl".  In your expierence with other peoples dogs what did you do and how did you teach your friends to continue witth protocol?  Where did you learn your techniques?  How did you follow through with other peoples dogs?  I don't understand where you get your logic or your expierence?

I can only guess what your answer is going to be, but since you claim it worked for you, what did you do?  How long did it take?  To say stop the growling without a course of action to follow could very well leave the OP to do something incorrectly.  Don't you agree?

In my personal expierence with my own resource guarding dog, me tring to stop the growl (in resource guarding) made the situation worse.  As the dog grew older the resource guarding increased as did his aggression.  Me trying to stop the growl, taking the food or putting myself in the forefront did not work.  Not until an expierenced behaviorist taught me a protocal to follow and explained what was going on in my dogs mind did the resource guarding subside - it took over a year to feel comfortable with my dog around food. I am passing along advice that a trained behaviorist showed me and that I paid good money for and ..  that worked!!

Very good points.

I wonder if espencer is thinking short term and not long term?  That in a certain situation he didn't allow the dog to growl and didn't get bitten?  That may be the disagreement......I'm talking long term and I know first hand how terrifying it is to get a foster who has had the growl permanately extinguished.  I honestly am very reluctant to take them any more.  I'd far rather have a strange dog in my home who GROWLS and tells me that something is ticking him off than to have one that doesn't warn me!  And I deal with that growl calmly and have yet to be bitten.  Knock on wood!

But, again, THIS IS A 7 WEEK OLD PUPPY!  This is not an animal showing agression, simply a baby doing what he did with his littermates, guarding his food from theft.  And I have to say that the suggestions you offered were dead on right.

espencer

Example:

Sign of aggression                                      % Chances to get Bitten

Dog submissive                                                         0%

Sorry, but this makes no sense to me.  It suggests a submissive dog will never growl at you!!!  Which is just plain NOT TRUE.  It also suggests that a dog who is not growling is not going to bite and again - not true.  *I* was bitten by a family dog when I was little, a very sweet, placid (you might say "submissive) Lab X.  There was no growl - no time for one, I just invaded her space and lunged in with my hand to pick something up off the floor by her bowl and she turned round and bit me. 

The use of the word "submissive" also suggests the puppy is being dominant in this scenario.  This is very likely to be untrue.  It is just as likely, if not MORE likely that he is feeling threatened and is trying to hang on to something which is important to him. 

It's all very well saying "stop the growl and you are safe and won't get bitten", but HOW do you "stop the growl"?  I am guessing some form of correction, but what?  Probably not a leash correction... a loud noise?  An ACK?? A SSSHHHTT?  Can you be more specific?

Mind you, you could just as easily "stop the growl" by moving away, thereby removing all possiblilty of a bite, but, I am guessing, not make the dog any more "submissive".  Whatever you do "in that moment", you need to begin remedial training IMMEDIATELY in earnest... and this is going to involve building the dog's trust in you so he no longer feels threatened.

Going back to the incident with the family dog when I was a child... can you guess what happened to the dog?  Nope, she was not PTS.  Nope, we did no remedial training with her.  Yep, *I* was told to be more considerate of the dog and leave her alone while she was eating.  End of.  We humans have this weird need to dissect everything, explain it, analyse it and control it.... sometimes I think we just need to accept that the dog is talking to you in the only way he can and you just have to step back and listen.