Insanity at the Vet (Jaia) - 4iC

Great update! Keep letting us now how things go 

RAh -- you're doing great.  Sorry I haven't checked back in, but I'm having a tough time b/c I can't seem to get my posts via email any more.  oh well -- I was just trying to find this so I could check on you and Jaia.  You are doing all the right things!!  you go girl!!!  IT WILL PAY OFF!!!!!!

PS -- occasionally pull out ALL the stops and do something completely and wonderfully insane.

last summer when Billy was having to be POKED constantly with needles (and the holistic vet's folks just weren't nearly as 'good' taking blood as the 'regular' vet was, but we were having to get his pack cell checked every other day for a while).

Anyway -- one day I KNEW this was all starting to wear very thin, PLUS it was getting to the point where he was gaining this huge 'belly' with the pred at the time, so I was trying to make sure he ate but didn't 'gain' either.  *sigh* NOT EASY.

So what the heck can I take for an awesome treat so he can get stuck a couple more times???  Ack!!  Plus he was running yet ANOTHER uti so he ws going to have to have a sterile urine draw done (c-a-t-h-e-t-e-r!!!! YIPE)

I stopped at Publix (grocery store) and got a small plastic bowl container of fresh "seedless" watermelon cubes.  Billy LOVES LOVES LOVES 'waddymellen' and oh my stars -- this will WORK.

I will forever remember seeing Billy FULL of acupuncture needles sitting on the floor with the vet while she fed him watermelon hand over fist.  Somewhere in there he was barely able to restrain himself while they took blood ("S'OK -- HURRY there's more waddymellen in THAT DISH THERE -- HURRRWWYYYY!!!!!!";)

Did he mind?  Not a bit

Fun?  I'm not at all sure to this day WHO enjoyed that messy slurpy treat more -- Billy or the vet!!!

You said McDonalds -- and you know, all's fair in re-training, love, war, and HIGH VALUE TREATS.  There are times, dang-it -- when you NEED Micky-D's ...  that makes a SUPER strong impression -- so frankly, if you get one time when you KNOW full well it's gonna be a high high stress vet visit and yet it's one you really want to go SUPER well -- stop at Mc D's on your way. 

the vet, by that time, is going to understand and appreciate all YOU have done to make sure your dog is at ease in HIS/HER office.  They're going to appreciate your fore-thought!!! 

And just ONE time of some super-unbelievalbe-awesome-completely OFF THE SCALE 'high value' treat -- you get a ton of mileage out of that because you know what??  You won't have that mega treat with yout the *next* time ... but Jaia is going to eternally look for that awesomest treat!!

We say dogs have short memories -- but trust me -- for stuff like that, they have memories like an elephant!! LOL

While I've never really had this much problems with taking the dogs to the vets, I do know my boyz decided the vet's was the most wonderful place after I took them there to be collected.    Of course if your dog is already neutered this won't work, and even if he's not, I'm not sure you want to shell out the $$$ if you're not thinking about wanting frozen pupcicles later. 

Otherwise, the desensitization works.  Sometimes taking another (calmer) dog can help, but with larger dogs this can be difficult.  Or if it is your alpha with these issues, I'm not sure that would work.  Hopefully the vet will be willing to examine him outside and hopefully it's nice weather for the next few days.

Thanks again for all these great suggestions! Callie, next time we have to go in the vet, we're making a trip to Mickey D's on the way! For now, it's boiled chicken ***, which is a HUGE hit. (Edit - LOL That's chicken chest, then! LOL)

Thursday: Today, we got out of the car after only a few minutes and walked all over in front of the building and smelled the grass. (Well, I didn't) Then a customer arrived, so rather than take any chances, I put Jaia back in the car while they entered. He was really curious about the 2 dogs, so I took that opportunity to get him out again and "let" him smell their trail, which led right up to the door. He didn't go that far, but he did step up on the sidewalk about 10 feet from the door. Much praise and chicken! Good boy!

When he got a little nervous about being that close to the door, I circled around and took him back to the car. We sat for a few more minutes, having chicken treats and then we came home.

This is like eating an elephant. One bite at a time.  

FourIsCompany

This is like eating an elephant. One bite at a time

Excellent description.

If it were me, each time I got my dog closer I would encourage him to stay there, sit and treat.  I think if you immediatly allow "escape" or "retreat" he dosen't get a chance to feel comfortable?  That's just my mind thinking out loud.  If he can sit, be petted and enjoy a treat and "calmly" that would show progress to me and maybe next time he can get closer without fretting as much.

Just a thought...even though you know this vet never mistreated your dog, try another vet. Or, try just going into the waiting room, playing with him, hang out there for a few minutes each time and leaving. No drugs, homeopathic or medicinal.

luvmyswissy

If he can sit, be petted and enjoy a treat and "calmly" that would show progress to me and maybe next time he can get closer without fretting as much.

Yeah, I didn't exactly say that but we were close to the steps for probably 2 minutes. I gave several treats and just stood there. Today, I'm going to try it again. No one will be there, so it's just the building and us... 

lostcoyote

what is the very next thing that happened with your response, the vets response, or an assistants response immediately after he got scared and peed on the floor

I know exactly what happened, because I wanted to scream! LOL The assistant petted and comforted him. I just stood there. I wonder, what's the best way to say, "Please don't comfort him."? I come across as harsh to so many people and I don't want to piss anyone off. I'll have a talk with the assistant next time I take him in before it all begins. I just don't know how to say it without coming across as a meany (read female dog).

Shamus The White Devil's Mom

try just going into the waiting room, playing with him, hang out there for a few minutes each time and leaving.

Yeah, that's a great idea. When we get inside the door, I'll do that. Right now, we aren't even in the door yet.

Update soon.  

Saturday: Today's visit was very successful! After spending a few minutes at the farthest point of Thursday's visit, I remembered a DW episode in which the dog was fearful of the scale at the vet. Cesar took the dog on a leash and walked toward the scale with certainty that the dog would follow. And, of course, he did.

As soon as I got my head in that 'zone', and let go of all hesitation, I grabbed the leash, said, "Come on, Jaia, " and walked up the two steps that lead to the door and walked right past the door to the other end of the building! Jackpot time! Jaia got several pieces of chicken and much praise. We hung out there for a while and then turned around for another pass at the door. This time, I stopped at the door and asked Jaia to sit a few times, then to down... Then I grabbed the door handle (They're closed today) and jiggled it, all the while praising Jaia and giving chicken bits.

After a few more commands, we SLOWLY and without pulling, left and went back to the car. I'm so thrilled with this progress! In just a few days! I don't think he's ready to go in yet, but I'm thinking I'll be able to open the door on Monday! :)  He's right at the very edge of his comfort zone and actually most times a little over, but he recovers and then we move on. I'm so proud of my brave boy! LOL

I'm continuing these updates in the hopes that we'll be successful and someone else might benefit from the step-by-step progress in the future.  

FourIsCompany

but I'm thinking I'll be able to open the door on Monday! :) 

 This will be the time when what you do can have tremendous outcome on your overall progress so far. My suggestion is that if you do open the door you need to hold it open until he is calm, hopefully you can call ahead and ask that they be patient with you should you need to stand in an open door and feed chicken for a few minutes. Once you achieve calmness then it will be time to decide whether to enter or not, the same thing will go once you enter. You will need to get him in a calm state before leaving. I am certain you already know all of this so we will keep our fingers crossed and send many good vibes your way.

 Is it possible to persuade someone on staff to open the door while you are waiting quietly outside? And even better maybe they could open the door, feed some chicken then go away. It would be even better if you could persaude them to wear the white vet coat (if your vet wears one) when they open the door and feed the chicken.

 anyway best of luck to you four, hope all goes well

4ic: The assistant petted and comforted him

First OFF what a gorgeous boy you have !!! I have really liked SDs since I met Mystic...LORD what a beauty she was, she could take a crowd and turnit on a dime. And the way she and Jimmey Moses would work could bring tears to your eyes.  It was a group  I rarely missed. We had a GSDwhen I was a teen, he had a stupid name, My step dad named him but he was sweet as the day is long , sound as you could hope for and a strong work ethic, My mom traded him for a wolf belonging to the Rodeo Champion of Mexico..the dog was a legend at the ranch and the new owner's pride and joy. The wolf ate my mom's chickens and beat the snot out of the obnoixious Saint Bernard next door... ahhh the memories of youth...

Now Jaia's problem....  We work with rescues, boarders, our friend's dogs and our own... and the following is standad for any dog who expresses concern about the vet...please understand my pack all qualify for CGC at the very least, we pride ourselves on the level of therapy awareness our hounds show.

We routinally drop by NOT just our vet but a series of local vets , weigh in and chat... hang out in the waiting room and give a ton  o' cookies...

there are no proceadures done, just a behavior exercise...hanging out till the dog is calmer...  it is follwed up by a trip through a drive thru, canine burger may be a fast pee break at the park... we make the vet an outing.

Sometimes with a very nervous dog we will sit in the lobby of our different vets , chatting with folks , a standard socialization exercise...  It is wonderful if you can do this 3 xs a week for 2-3 weeks then tart slowly reducing the trips.

Keep in mind this entire time we are still taking baby boy to the soccer field, baseball diamond, shopping mall, wal mart, gas station ... They go out unexpectedly on short trips..to the gas station for jerky or a donut,,,, to pick up kids at school and get a burger.... the whole point is to make the trip out as pleasant as ossible.

I slip a burger...you know the cheapo types in my purse and break it up having the staff and doctor feed him.... plus the tasty little vitamins vets love tohand out...any thing to make puppy happy.

I have absolutely EVERYONE look at the bite... kids...neighbors...the guy who wants to selll me something from his truck... the gardener... the garbage men...I don't care WHO it is , as long as they are in his face and he allows it. You have NO ideal how much I tipped the guys at the pizza hut to come out and feed my dog treats...but that was a different issue, he hadn't met any black people and I never knew it would be an issue!

Stacking or standing your dog in front of a Wal-mart   K-mart  Target...you get the picture...with show pups I stack, stack, stack   just to make sure they  can handle the noise, clatter and traffic.  Bites are shown, dog submits to petting and to standing ....

We go to the outlet mall...it is a huge one. And we greet all interested people...when there isn't some one eager to say hi we stand, stack and  I adjust, readjust opening the mouth, showing the bite etc...

EVERYTHING is backed up by a food treat which for our breed is the end all be  all

Then we hang out    with every one else.... perks are the dog becomes better adjusted and able to handel anything... drawbacks ae he isn't as scary to everyone !!

Best of luck  and I hope you have a chance to look at the chaos snap shot..

Bonita of Bwana       

HOnestly I think this thread SHOULD BE of huge interest ... there are so many people who have said 'oh... he HATES the vet' -- and you CAN change that.

the fact that you are chronicling this day by day is awesome -- thank you SOOOOOOOO MUCH for doing this!!  It's really good for others to see how TO break it down day by day.

As you keep this up -- you'll be astounded a year from now.  Truly you will.  And you'll find in the future you are MUCH more proactive to keep the dogs "liking" going to the vet.

 All three of mine think going to the vet is the awesomestest EST thing ever.  But, my vets have learned how handy it is -- I've said before how much blood Billy's had drawn and I didn't really even "go there" about the zillion catheters and hurtful procedures he's had done in the past year.

But EVERY TIME every where we go, I take treats.  But even so -- Billy and Co. win friends with this -- mostly because once the vet's office sees how HARD you've worked, they begin to enjoy playing along.  For them to step back and help a dog learn to ENJOY their visit -- it helps them.

Ok -- case in point.  2 weeks ago I had to stop at the holistic vet and pick up something for Kee Shu.  I couldn't get there during office hours and they will sometimes leave a med for me in the box they put out for the lab??  And they have a key WELL hidden and will tell me where it is today so I can pick up something and leave them a check.  I did, in fact, this time mention to the receptionist that I'd go home, get the pups so they could do the "outdoor thing" and would likely schlep them with me "for the ride".   I was just making conversation with her meaning since it was gonna be an extra trip, I'd bring the dogs. 

Well, so I went home, got the dogs just so they could have a "ride" and we went hauling down to Dr. D's.  I drive in the driveway and ALL THREE OF MINE go ape-nuts.  WE'RE AT DR. D"S!!! WHOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I mean the excitement and thrills from the back of the PT Cruiser was pretty funny.  "Look guys I'm JUST here to pick something UP!!! LOOOK it's CLOSED!!! Nobuddy is HERE! ok?  Just chill!!!"

I got out, went and did the key thing and when I got back in the car with the bag I thot what the heck is in THAT???  There was an extra 'envelope' (like the ones they'll put pills in??) in the bag.  All it was suposed to be was one small bottle of pills??

IT WAS A BIG TREAT (they buy these 'bars' of treats that are scored so they can be broken apart and this was a honkin big piece!!!!).  It had "Billy, Luna and Kee!!!!" on the envelope.

 Dang -- but if they didn't get treats just for driving in the darned driveway!!!!!!

Any of my dogs afraid to go get acupuncture?  Heck no!!!  They think it's a darned vacation and spa!!!!

But my dogs ALL are like this at every single vet we go to -- cos they know it's gonna be a GOOD thing.  Maybe I set that up and maybe I reinforce it -- but I never EVER have to worry that OMGosh how am I gonna get him in the vet to get him treated!!!

My problem is usually getting them to want to LEAVE and go home!!