Aggressive dog and our baby is on the way

ORIGINAL: amstaffy

Ok folks..again, we are taking things personal.

Take a deep breath, consider the replies, yes, it is a dog forum and addressing many issues or replies in one post can be done in the above manner rather then making several different posts in a thread.

Lets cool down

I can honestly say...I hope none would actually take offence to my way of asking questions and getting people to think about things. I take no offence to people who differ in thought than me, and certainly do not mean any.  Sometimes it is the depth of the questions...that bring forth the truth in answers.  Is it not?

quote:

There is also that critical stage in a puppy's development that if the puppy is not socialized by that age it will never be able to function in that environment normally.

That is simply NOT true and I would ask how you could possibly back that statement up.

 
Wisewilddog-
I believe this is talked about in the Fuller and Scott study.  The book is Genetics and the Social Behavior of the Dog. 

ORIGINAL: agilebasenji
Wisewilddog-
I believe this is talked about in the Fuller and Scott study.  The book is Genetics and the Social Behavior of the Dog. 

And while that study can make such claims, one can also find other studies that would dispute such findings. All that aside though, I like to go by real life and I tend to believe my own eyes. I have...in my twenty something years of working with thousands of dogs...seen first hand...that's simply not true. More often than not I have seen dogs that had no chance of making it ("behaviorist" claiming they were just to unstable due to lack of socialization, being taking from the mother to soon, blah, blah, blah) turn out to be some of the best family pets one could want. So while some "experts" make whatever "claims" they wish...none can say to me...my own eyes are lying. I won't and don't by it. One should also look at...just how certain "studies" are conducted. Working with dogs in a controlled environment is not the same as working with dogs in their natural environment, and for domesticated dogs...that meens the human home. That's where I spend a lot of my time, as well as watching and studying dogs in large and small packs. You might want to read some of the works of Vilmos Csanyi. The bottom line for me though...is what I've seen for myself.

Actually I enjoyed what I've read of Dr Csanyi's writings.  But you did ask for some back up for the statement about early socialization, or lack there of and I've supplied it for you.  If you choose to totally discount it before reading it, that of course is your descision.  And of course there are exceptional individuals to disprove any study.  But if there are any lurkers out there thinking of raising (or in the process of raising) a litter of puppies, I think they should understand that most people (scientists and breeders) would say that earlier socialization is important.
 
Since none of this is very useful to the OP, I'll refrain from going on this tangent any more.  You're welcome to the last word on this if you wish.

ORIGINAL: agilebasenji

Actually I enjoyed what I've read of Dr Csanyi's writings.  But you did ask for some back up for the statement about early socialization, or lack there of and I've supplied it for you.  If you choose to totally discount it before reading it, that of course is your descision.

Why would you assume I haven't read it. One would be hard pressed to find any dog book I haven't read.

And of course there are exceptional individuals to disprove any study.  But if there are any lurkers out there thinking of raising (or in the process of raising) a litter of puppies, I think they should understand that most people (scientists and breeders) would say that earlier socialization is important.

Please don't misunderstand what I'm saying...early socialization is very good and mentally healthy for all dogs. My point was...dogs who did not get that chance can still (with the right kind and hard work) become well balanced societal and family members.

Since none of this is very useful to the OP, I'll refrain from going on this tangent any more.  You're welcome to the last word on this if you wish.

It's not about the last word, it's about exchanging information. And information is always helpful...to someone.

I was looking for some advice and this is the first time I have used this site.  Thanks to Richard_dragin and his negative attitude I will not be returning to this site. FYI Richard - I don't "need to be told something harsh for a wake up call" but I guess that would be clear to most people since I am osting on a dog forum for advice.  I am great to my animals and we have worked one on one with a trainer and have been working with their vet to help out with the problem.  lease don't say I let the problem go on for 3 years when I have tried a variety of treatments and would do anything to keep them in my home.
Thanks to everybody for the great advice.   

I'm not aware of any correlation between dogs fighting with other dogs and dogs being aggressive towards children.
If these fights have been going on for three years, I doubt it's a medical issue. You say most of the fights occur while you're in the room with both dogs? is it possible the older dog is "resource guarding" you?
 
 

Merrynoel, congratulations on the baby! I hope you're still reading. []

It's awfully hard to deal with two female's fighting, and being pregnant at the same time (I would imagine). I can also understand your concern. Please let me second these already excellent suggestions:

1. Medical work-up for both dogs
2. Behaviorist help

I have two dogs that would, at one point, scrap at the drop of the hat. Come to find out (eight months after it started) that one of the dogs has severe arthritis where her pelvis and spine come together. She apparently, unbeknownst to me because of her extreme stoicism, was in a great deal of pain. After getting her help for her pain, and instilling some leadership techniques (and other management techniques) the two gals can again hang together. I've learned that when her pain is increased, she tends to start picking fights with the other dogs.

It can be hard to pinpoint what's going on - triggers, etc., and that is one place where a professional can be very helpful. The books/videos Anne (spiritdogs) posted helped save my bacon. Hopefully they will yours as well. However, if you've tried help from your vet and a trainer, it may be time to find an actual behaviorist. What all have your trainer and vet done so far?

Good luck, and please do PM me if I can help you in any way. Does it seem to be escalating? One thing, in your position, I would do is to keep them seperated until you can find someone to give an objective look at things. Sending up some prayers for you and your unborn, and your dogs.