PLEASE HELP - About to give up...

I am not a trainer or a behaviorist but, there are a couple of issues I see.  I think there are too many dogs in your training classes.  In addition, and I mean no offense by this comment, but it doesn't sound like you are cut out to raise a puppy.  They try anyone's patience.
 
You have a hunting dog.  Although your dog might still be a bit young, for gun dog training methods (I really don't know), I would seek the advice and assistance of a gun dog trainer.

You're willing to spend any amount of time or money yet you've only had him for 8 weeks! 
 
I suggest you find a good behaviorist near you and have a consultation - let them tell you if this puppy is showing excessive aggressiveness or not because none of us can tell you over the internet.  Honestly, my take from reading your posts for the last 2 months is that you have expectations that are way too high and you are not a strong enough leader.  Please don't take offense to this statement, I can't only draw conclusions from the posts that you've made.  Yes, you may have a very high energy, out of control puppy but a truly aggressive 15 week old puppy is rare. 
 
NILIF is a GREAT program and I suggest you try it or at least read about it before you dismiss it.  There's a reason that so many experienced dog people use elements of it all the time.
 
15 week old puppies generally don't know how to retrieve.  Will he chase toys?  If not, throw a toy and chase it yourself.  When you get it make a big deal out of it being the best thing in the world.  Repeat a couple of times.  Do this again the next training session.  He will start to get the idea.  From there, keep a long line on him so that when he gets to the toy you can reel him back in and throw it again.
 
Why is this biting puppy being allowed to get near your faces so he can bite you?
 
How does he act when you want to go for a walk?  With puppies, I walk and they follow - or they get dragged for a bit before they decide that following me is easier and more fun.  I'm not talking about hurting him, but don't "ask" him to go for a walk - start walking and don't give him a choice about coming with you.
 
20 or 15 puppies in a puppy class is way too many.  How many instructors are there?  I'd suggest finding another place for classes if this # of dogs per class is the norm.  10 would be the max I'd want.  With all of those puppies in a room I'd be surprised if he wasn't out of control.

Also, if you do decide to give up PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE contact a rescue group near you.  There are lots of lab rescues and they will take mixes.  Don't give him up free to someone or post an ad in the paper.  A rescue group will thoroughly screen adopters and there's no way for you to do that yourself.  Don't just give him up to "wherever".

Hi there. I have a 2 year old treeing walker coonhound, he was such a handful when we got him. I was not sure if it would work for us, but it did and we stuck it out. Boy am I glad that we did, he is the best, most loyal, sweetest, smartest dog ever now.

Let me tell you about our first training classes. Truman feels the need to meet every dog he sees, even if they don' want to meet him. So he sat and bayed (normal hound stuff) at all the other dogs while they were learning their stuff. he wanted no part of it, he just wanted to play.

Coonhouns in general are puppies for a long time, up until 2 or so years old, and let me tell you, they need *A LOT* of exercise. I think that you have a benefit though, youve got some lab in there! He will be a lot easier to train.

I know that you don't want to hear about the normal puppy stuff but it is just that! It will take a little while but if you just stick in there, you'll have the best dog in the world.

Now let me tell you about 2 other things that really helped our sitiation:

1) Tracking, he loves it and it makes him really tired. This is his job, and we don't have to go very often but he loves it. A tired dog is a good dog.

2) Truman went to the Women's Correctional facility in Denver and spent some time there training. They spend 24 hours a day with the inmate and the play with them, run around their track (they had to switch off with Truman) brush their teeth, groom them, and train them. It was all positive reinforcement training.

When we came to pick him up after the time he was there all the dogs came out and the girls showed the poele what the dogs had learned.. The herding dogs were pretty much doing taxes and every thing in the book, they are so smart. But then Truman came out.... I nervously waited. He laid down in the middle of 20 dogs running around and playing in a perfect "down-stay" he knew hand signals, you would be so amazed...

We are still doing training together because he loves to work and he enjoys it so much! The cost was $400.00 for 6 weeks.

I hesitated posting this because at 1st the whole idea of it sounded really mean to me. He is a rescue dog and I think had been in a few homes before us. He is a hound and high strung, he needs endless exercise. I tried training class with him before and he just sat there and bayed at the other dogs. I thought it would be a breeze, boy was I wrong!

The whole experience was really positive for the both of us, and his trainer was one of the nicest people I have ever met. When she leaves prision she will have a skill. We write letters back and forth and when she leaves prison, she is going to be a dog trainer. She cried when we left with him, he was in her care for 24 hours a day for 6 weeks.

I am not sure if this is a possibility for you, you could call around in your area. Just be careful of some boot camps as they can use shock collars and other stuff, which can make a more psycho dog!!

Hang in there, I swear to you it will get better, I promise!!!

chasing the cats

Oh I forgot about this. Cats have a musky smell that is similar to racoons, so your baby is doing what has been bred into him for a long time.

When Truman chased our cat, we would squirt him with a spray bottle. He still thinks that the cat smells like heaven, especially "certain parts" but he is little more than a small annoyance to the cat.

I am hoping that you introduced them slowly?

And smart? Oh yeah. Wanting to please? Oh no.

This is so true, a lot of other dogs will learn tricks because they want to please you. Hounds will say, "what's in it for me?"

So keep in mind stinky treats work well!

Hang in there!!  You have what sounds like a really active puppy who is just not getting tired out enough to behave!  Believe me - I hear ya!  When we got Wes at 9 months he was a TERROR.  He was mouthy to the nth degree and as a lab x bc, he had so much energy he was seemingly never tired.  My arms and legs were scratched raw and black and blue from teeth and nails, I cried every day, several times a day, I couldn't wait to go to work to get away from him each day - he was nippy, he was into everything, I couldn't turn my back for one second.  I literally couldn't go to the bathroom because he would either follow me and jump all over me or else he would run away from me and eat something he shouldn't.  I can't even tell you how ridiculous those first months were... 
 
But, here we are about a year later.  Wes is about 19 months and I am now rarely chewed on or jumped on (he sometimes forgets, but he is getting better and better).  Wesley gets a lot (3+ hours a day, much of which is off leash with other dogs) of exercise, he goes for a herding lesson (as a mental and physical activity) once a week, and we are still working with a trainer (private lessons work better for our particular issues) on general obedience as well as some dominance aggression issues Wesley has.  He is a generally well behaved dog, he is calm (usually) in the house, he has very nice leash manners and he is a generally great companion for us. 
 
It was and is A LOT of work, but honestly, if Wesley could come this far I know that with time and effort your pup will get better (I know you probably can't imagine that Wesley could have been as bad as your pup, but I am pretty sure he was - I would come to work and people would be appalled at the state of my arms...  And, Wesley was older, we got him from rescue where he had already taken root). 
 
So please,  stick it out.  Get a trainer to come to your home, asssess your issues and set up specific protocols that you can use with your puppy.  It will get better!!

Yes, as everyone says here, he needs to "blow out the carbon".  If you don't have a place where he can run safely, get a long line and "lunge" him in large circles in a park or field, changing directions, moving around ,practicing recall and sending him out again.  Make it interesting and fun with a frisby or ball.  The idea is to get him to do tons of  running while you minimally move and control his activity. 

I have an high energy English Setter and a Pointer.  After about 20 minutes of this, they come home and sleep. 

Lots of great replies here- and a couple negative ones.  I guess I forgot to preface that I have NEVER owned a dog before and had no idea what goes into to developing a puppy into your best friend, loyal companion, well behaved, etc..  So to the people that say my expectations are too high, what were your expectations the first time you owned a puppy?  All you hear is how cute and cuddly and fun they are.  You don't hear any of the hard fought battles of training and growing up.
 
To the poster who said I am not cut out out to raise a puppy.  That is probably the most ignorant and ridiculous post i have seen in sometime.  Maybe if you knew me personally, but come on.  I am a patient, animal loving, self sacrificing person who would give his right arm for this dog.  I'm dying to be his best friend and loyal companion.  I'm giving up every square inch of my personal life to ensure I do everything right for this dog and that he gets everything he needs.
 
As for the biting the face.  Soemntime, we try to lay next to him or get down on his level.  Then he lunges for the fce.  Do you see how that could be possible that our faces are within his reach?
 
I am taking away multiple valuable suggestions from these posts, with the best piece of advice being more exercise.  I have heard it is not good to run with your dog, because he then associates you as the toy.  So kind of in a pickle there.  We have a backyard, but it won't allow for huge long sprints, but rather short spurts.  We have a couple fo places we can take him toi swim, we actually finally got him to go in the water for the first time this week.  It seems like he really lieks it.  One place is at the end of our back yard, but it is a retention pond, so it is dirty.  We have to bath him after he goes in there.  A few blocks a way is a beautiful lake, so we will be taking him there more often to "blow him out". HE actually got in and swam for a stick about 4 times today!
 
Anyway, I'm not giving up yet, but I am not seeing any positive benefits of owning a dog...yet.  He never shows any affection towards us, unless you consider biting faces and hands and arms and legs.

I totally feel your pain. My Bree is now almost 3 years old, and she was the hellion puppy. Bitey bitey, jumpy, howly, baying, growling, crazy dog all the time - she just NEVER stopped. We were told she was a Blue Tick X, but we have no idea other than she has some type of hound in there, along with some Border Collie. I knew NOTHING about puppies when I got her, although I knew some things about adult dogs.

Here are some things I WISH I had known:

- Crate train your puppy. We did this, but still were on the fence and didn't use it at times when we SHOULD have - like when she SHOULD be napping.

- Exercise your puppy well - mentally and physically. Make sure to do so before OB class.

- After exercise, playing, and potty needs are met, if the dog doesn't rest, crate it for some down time - ignore the protests initially. If the dog won't self regulate, you're going to have to TEACH it to settle. Some times these types of things can result from OVER-stimulation just as easily as they can lack of stimulation.

- Establish a schedule. Eat at the same times every day, take naps, play, etc - predicably.

- Practice NILIF. Puppy wants dinner? Has to sit. Puppy wants a toy? Has to sit. Etc.

- Have lots of acceptable chew things for puppy.

- Give puppy lots of mind work!

When the pup is biting at you, offer it something more acceptable to bite - maybe a toy tied to the end of a leash? Something you can drag and tug some. You can also withdraw your attention, or try the yelping method.

Another thing is that sometimes things like nipping can be self-reinforcing. Do your level best to keep nippable parts (like noses) away from puppy for now. The more he does this, the more he'll want to do it.

There were many times where I moaned to my DH, "I don't think I'm going to make it". We did. I just kept chanting to myself, "This too shall pass". And it did. We made it, and doG forbid I'm getting another puppy. It could be that your pup is just a little pushy with you right now too. With pushy dogs, its always helpful to start a NILIF program early - to go ahead and establish your leadership early.

Hang in there. Deep cleansing breaths, my friend, you're going to make it. Oh, and I think agile mentioned a behaviorist - I think that's a good idea! They can help you decipher what is normal puppy (for your breed) and what needs to be worked on. Good luck!

There is a book that I found to be invaluable with my Aussie puppy, Ruby.  It's called The Dog Listener by Jan Fennell.  She fully explains the practice of Amichien Bonding in this book.  Basically, you need to learn how to communicate with your puppy in a language he can understand.  Amichien Bonding consists of four main elements:  reuniting after separation (extrememly helpful with puppies), feeding, going on the hunt (walking), and perceived danger (encountering other dogs, who's at the door).  I'm not explaining it very well but if you can get your hands on the book, I think it'll help a lot.  It really helped me. I think a behaviorist is an excellent suggestion, as well.  Fennell has behaviorists in the US that are certified in Amichien Bonding.  You can find them on her website.  Sorry if I sound like a spokesperson for her but that is the best book I've read on dog behavior so far.  You're certainly welcome to PM me if you have any questions about it.

The last time I had a puppy, I fostered a litter of SEVEN of th little darlings!  German shepherds but what a handful!  They're only a year old now so the memory is still pretty fresh.
 
You've gotten really good advice to just tire the be-jesus out of that boy.  I do agree that the puppy class is far too large.  I'm guessing that you've tried the yelping and ignoring when he bites?  If that's the case then you might want to cautiously try a spray bottle with plain water......tell him "no bite" give him a second to comply and if he doesn't give him a bit of a spritz...I spray the neck area.  The purpose of the spray is NOT to punish, but to distract him long enough that he stops biting and then you can praise a "good no bite".
 
Aside from wearing out the pup, consistency in how you react is absolutely key.  I do understand how totally frustrating this is right now, but trust me, there are MAJOR upsides to dog ownership.....you just have to really pay your dues to get there.

Quote" but I am not seeing any positive benefits of owning a dog...yet. "
 
Positive benefits of owning a dog....you have a puppy.  Puppies are like children you need to discipline and teach them and nurture them...its not an easy job.  I spent just over two years to get my Rottie to be how I wanted and it was a LONG two years.  Raising a puppy takes patients and more patients and even more patients.  Its not an overnight success thing.  It takes years to raise children and the same for a pup to a full grown mature dog.  Most of the things you have listed as problems are easily corrected with exercise and keeping body parts especially the face out of puppy's reach.  You should never be at equal level or lower then the pup.  They associate it with you being equal or them being dominant.  I don' t know what you really expected when you got a puppy, but you cannot expect a micracle.  It would be like saying a 2 year old child is going to be perfect because they listen at home.  2 and 3 year old kids are tough to raise that's why they call them the terrible 2 and 3's.  You need to spend more time working with this pup and tire him out and seek private training or small class training.  Did you do any research before getting this pup?  Sorry if I come across a little harsh but it is not meant that way.  If this were a child would you simply cast them away for being a child?  You cannot justify casting off a pup because he is acting like a pup.  Maybe a bit more research could have been done and you could have gotten a dog, but what is done is done.  If you wish to keep this pup you are going to have to work hard and in the end you can enjoy a loving companion for many years to come.

I did a TON of research and did not expect a perfect angel or that I wouldnt have to work to make my dog behave correctly.  The thing that has got me so disappointed is that I see roughly 35 other puppies weekly.  None of them act the way my Kobi does.  Thats all.  Thats whats got me worried, scared, frustrated.  I didnt expect him to be a perfect angle "out of the box".  I was prepared to give up most of my free time for him, I was expecting biting, frustration and barking.  I wasn't expecting that in a class of puppies, mine would be the one that every looks at and shakes their head at and thank God that there puppy is not like that.
 
I will continue to fight through this.   I love him too much.  I just went outside and we swam and played "go get your football" and just general running around stuff.  The little man is all tuckered out now and sleeping!
 
Here's another thing.  We dont make him nap in his crate.  He never pees in the house anymore.  Shoudl we be making him nap in his crate?  Currently he has his own 5x14 area that has toys, his crate and his food and water.  It is blocked off and he cant egt out of it.  Should we be making him stay in the crate during the "in your area" times? 50% of the time he naps in the crate anyway.  other times he just plops on the floor against a wall.
 
Thanks again everyone.  I truly appreciate your time and effort on the replies.  Please try to keep them positive rather than negative.  I'm new at this and I obviously have a tough puppy.
 
Thanks,
GSB

I know how you're feeling, because my current dog was my first ever as well. Talk about trial by fire. A LOT of puppies... maybe even MOST puppies... are not cuddly little mushballs who just want to lick your face, retrieve a ball, and settle in for a nap! [] uppies are a ton of work, often very frustrating and exhausting, and I agree with you, this is not something that anyone tells you when you're looking for a puppy. I think it's one of those selective amnesia phenomena, like how mothers forget some of the pain of childbirth so that they will reproduce again and continue the species []... even those of us who found puppyhood difficult tend to wax nostalgic about puppies most of the time. At the same time, when people DO warn someone that puppies are a lot of work, that someone tends to filter out that little tidbit because they are so seduced by the cuddly puppy idea.
 
Please, please, don't compare your dog to other dogs in class. It's just not accurate. You don't know how those puppies behave in other situations anyway. Maybe that little angel teacher's pet in class poops all over the house every day. Maybe that loyal little student has selective hearing at home. People used to enviously tell ME in class, "Your puppy is so good - he is so focused on you!" That was true - IN CLASS. At home he was a (lovable) hellion. And like I said, my friends' pup was so awful in class, he was the dog the teacher constantly used as the example of the puppy who doesn't listen - but in his home he was housetrained in about two days and was very well behaved. So you never know.
 
Remember that the smarter the dog is, oftentimes the more difficult he is to train... which sounds counterintuitive, but a really smart dog will be more likely to pick up on your inconsistencies, not to mention more likely to invent his own jobs and things to do around the house.
 
All the of the puppy nipping you've described still sounds normal to me, and my puppy did that too. My boyfriend and I were just reminiscing about the early days recently, and he recalled how the pup nipped him so much in those first months that he (boyfriend) almost cried a couple times - not because it hurt but because he didn't know why his sweet little buddy was biting him! Just be consistent about ignoring nipping, and don't expect immediate results... he will grow out of that phase.
 
About running around, you can definitely play chase with your dog - but I think it's wise to always be the chasee and have HIM chase YOU. There is no danger of him thinking you are a toy! But if you chase him, there is the risk that when the time comes for you to really run and grab him, he won't know if you're playing a game. But chase can be great fun. One game I play with my pup, who still is not the greatest fetch player, is just letting him run around with a ball in his mouth chasing me while I kick a second ball around and chase it myself. Sounds stupid to humans but he loves it and could play it all day.