Hitting dogs: is it OK?

I learned this from watching the Dog Whisperer.  I trust him....

Fighting. Urge.


Okay, not going there. But the show has a disclaimer for a reason.

LOL.....  I am not hurting him in any way.  It just sounds bad.  The dogs almost weighs more than me.  He could totally take me out if he wanted to.  Don't be Hatin..[8|]

I have just been reading and rereading a great chapter from Bones Would Rain From the Sky, so once again (sorry!) I'm going to quote my favorite dog author:
 
In our minds, we can pity Black Beauty, be moved to tears by the poetry in a dog's soul, and yet still ask the question, "How hard do you hit the dog?" Coherence seems a rare thing, and the human mind is sometimes quite careless about insisting on it. In the long run, however, I think our lack of coherence eats at us, undermines the sureness with which we know our own minds, and thus blocks us fom knowing our souls. We may choose to glide unthinking on the surface of our relationships, never asking how it is that we actually practice the art of loving friendship. But always, silently, our dogs remind us that our intellectual honesty and spritual integrity depend upon our willingness to question and thus defend against the inevitable cruelties small and large that accompany a philosophy at odds with its practice. - S. Clothier

Striking or sitting on a dog is a big taboo.  It's wrong and I refuse to see any situation where striking a dog or sitting on a dog will teach the dog anything.  There are much more positive ways to teach a dog. 
 
And Cressida, much like you I am fighting that same urge.

OK, this is my last post about this.  I only do this as a last resort when he is biting and won't stop.  I DO NOT actually sit on him.  I lay his on his side and to do that I have to get on top of him.  He is a big and strong puppy and I will not let him bite my kids. 
OK...you can continue bashing........ 

Cressida and Ed - me too.
 
I'm not going to start a CM debate here - there's a whole forum section for that.  I will say that one of the considerations when a person has a dog "big enough to take him/her out if he wants to" is precisely that.  If you don't have your dog's respect, one day he might want to.  A relationship based on cooperation is NECESSARY with a large dog, and I can't see how sitting on a dog furthers that goal.  I wouldn't cooperate with anyone who sat on me.
 
There's a reason why, in my head, I simply can't stop referring to CM as Voldemutt.
 
Kate

When I want my dog to know I'm unhappy with him, I give him a "mean face." As silly as it sounds, when I frown at him (usually paired with some sort of unhappy voice tone - not angry, but more like "that was not a nice thing to do") he immediately gets the idea - "Uh oh, I did something that made mom unhappy!"

I guess the hitting/no hitting debate goes back to your basic philosophy of training. When you might hit the dog, why would you be doing it? Are you disciplining the dog for doing something you didn't like? Are you letting the dog know that whatever it was is unacceptable? Are you attempting to "make him sorry" for what he did? Are you simply venting anger and frustration?

Personally, I think there are ways to express all of those without violent force towards the dog. With both people and animals I've had much more success using positive methods to make people want to do what I ask instead of forcing them to do what I ask.

I actually just totally randomly stumbled across this great artcile by (author, behaviorist and trainer) Suzanne Clothier about why people with largish dogs always seem to mention their dog's weight when talking about the difficulties they have with them.

[linkhttp://www.flyingdogpress.com/weigh.html]http://www.flyingdogpress.com/weigh.html[/link]

An exerpt (though it is a very short little essay):

Anytime you're aware how strong another being is, how much they weigh, it's probably because they are working against you and not with you. (Unless you are deliberately asking the dog to pull as you might in tracking, agitation work, tug games, or if they sit/lay on top of you, or having to restrain them for a veterinary procedure, etc). Anytime you think, "Heavens, this dog is so strong!" it's probably time to back up and find a way to reconnect.

ORIGINAL: Charlie06

I learned this from watching the Dog Whisperer.  I trust him....

Everybody here knows that i agree 100% with CM methods, but that example that you gave is totally wrong, those situations is what makes CM have bad reputation with some people, first of all CM never sits down on a dog, second CM is a professional and the "alpha roll" should NEVER be performed by someone that is not

If you want to continue doing it then will be under your own risk but please dont say you learned that from the TV show because unless you have 25+ of experience i bet you are doing it wrong and unnecessary

CM never sits down on a dog, second CM is a professional and the "alpha roll" should NEVER be performed by someone that is not

Because it can cause you to lose your face, if you do it wrong.


Just had to add that[]

When I want my dog to know I'm unhappy with him, I give him a "mean face."

 
That's funny, I do too.... whenever Scout would mouth me I would do the "ouch!" and then cross my arms and put on a scowl like a little kid.... it seemed to work, she would immediately sit or lay down and be oh-so-gentle.

I hit Rory all the time! Just like footbal players do when they score a touchdown, he he! She loves lil smack on her bum where she likes to be scratched, a lil pat pat pat is as good as a scratchin!
I would compare my level of pressure I use to that of a mother burping a baby, a gentle pat but  I would NEVER spank my girl. For one its pointless, two-I could never live with myself to see those sad eyes look at me in fear, three its a level of respect everyone should have for their dogs. A dog is the most loyal creature on earth and to mistreat it speaks volumes of a indviduals comapssion and worth. I'd love to smack those people right in the face....... apologize, wrap them in a hug and smack em again just to confuse them like our poor dogs are confused if we lashed out at them. Not to mention dogs are emotional creatures, a good reprimand works just as well if not better because at least they arnt fearful afterwards but still understand your dispapointment

Yeah, I like the "ouch" method.  Works real well with puppies to show them limits.  Very effective without being mean or violent.  It works with my older dogs, too.  If they play too rough, I say it strongly with a hurt "owie" tone in my voice and stick my bottom lip out and pretend to sob.  They respond very well to it.  I know it's kinda silly, but it works and I'm not hurting them at all.  Besides, how would a littermate show another puppy that they are biting too hard, they would probably yip, right?  Works for me!

It's wrong and I refuse to see any situation where striking a dog or sitting on a dog will teach the dog anything. 

 
Schutzhund is an example.  The dog is hit with a padded stick and sometimes the hand of a helper, not to be mean, but to reinforce to the dog that he is NOT to let go, no matter what happens to him.
 
One also has to separate "Is hitting ok for discipline?" and "Is hitting ok for play?"  because I thump and bang on Strauss all the time, and he loves it.  He plays the same way with other dogs (and they do the same with him).  They run into each other, smack each other with feet, etc etc.
 
Have I hit my dog before? Yes.  Have I regretted it?  Of course.  I did belt him a good one once during agility because he bit me in the stomach...rather hard, and it was just a knee jerk reaction.  Would I hit him for "discipline" on purpose?  No.