He's not Cesar

I did a little googling, he seems to be involved in a lot of foster and rescue work. That's good!

ORIGINAL: Awsomedog

...AND...I'm still waiting on that video.  *I* can take any breed from a young pup and teach them to follow and walk with me, without  any treats, clickers or collars. That's so easy...anyone with the right information can do it. What I want to see is you...or anyone for the matter, take a dog with high prey drive or aggression and get them to walk with you while another animal is around...using treats and a clicker. Lets see it..."PACleader".  []

 
Layman here, and I am bored at work.  By "high prey drive or aggression" are you referring to instinct drive in the breed and controlling that with food or the most basic need of the animal.  Doesn't need trump instinct?

ORIGINAL: espencer

he approuches a couple dogs and he does it with a very dominant attitude to see how the dogs react to it and how they lay down in front of him submissively, the dogs were not doing anything wrong so i didnt see the point of doing that []

I noticed that too, but I wondered if he had noticed an 'aggression signal' and had simply reacted very quickly to to it before any escalation?

post removed by member - and thanks Ixa's girl - I would not have wanted to take your first suggestion [:'(][:'(][:'(][:'(][:'(][:'(][:'(][:'(][:'(][:'(][:'(][:'(][:'(][:'(][:'(][:'(][:'(] ever.

Leave it!

This has got to be the reddest thread I've read here so far LMFAO...

[] spiritdogs, LOLOLOLOL!!! []

ORIGINAL: DPU

ORIGINAL: Awsomedog

...AND...I'm still waiting on that video.  *I* can take any breed from a young pup and teach them to follow and walk with me, without  any treats, clickers or collars. That's so easy...anyone with the right information can do it. What I want to see is you...or anyone for the matter, take a dog with high prey drive or aggression and get them to walk with you while another animal is around...using treats and a clicker. Lets see it..."PACleader".  []

Layman here, and I am bored at work.  By "high prey drive or aggression" are you referring to instinct drive in the breed and controlling that with food or the most basic need of the animal.  Doesn't need trump instinct?

I'll draw a picture. Your walking down the street, you pass a....Cane Corso that is barking, snapping, and choking itself to get at your dog. I say CC but you can place any breed there...like a JRT. But thats! the dog I'm talking about. Oh...and did someone say..."click to calm"? That's funny. I think I'll end me night with that bit of laughter.

Thats it for me, unless the Admin does something serious, No more CM for me on this forum.  Its a shame because this category has so much to offer me and my home situation.

Awesomedog, someone brought this guy up a while ago.  I went to his site and checked out his vids.  He seems like an interesting dog man and I'd like to learn more about him.

ORIGINAL: DPU

Thats it for me, unless the Admin does something serious, No more CM for me on this forum.  Its a shame because this category has so much to offer me and my home situation.

It is a shame.  It amazes me how many snide and rude posts there are from pro clicker/
"postitive" people demeaning CM (and his fans) in the CM section.  It's as if certain people just can't help themselves.  They take a stab every chance they get.  If you despise CM so strongly, why even bother coming into the CM part of the forum?   How many posts are there in the clicker section from CM fans blatantly trashing clicker training?   ZERO!  There are none.  I defy anyone to point one out to me.  Why is this?  I'm really curious. 

It's ridiculous to me how some people feel the need to paint things black or white, with no inbetween.  If you're a clicker/positive trainer, there's no way you could possibly learn anything from the barbaric and cruel Milan, right?   You have to choose one or the other.  It's sad, but that seems to be the mindset of some people.

ORIGINAL: Trevell

Awesomedog, someone brought this guy up a while ago.  I went to his site and checked out his vids.  He seems like an interesting dog man and I'd like to learn more about him.

ORIGINAL: DPU

Thats it for me, unless the Admin does something serious, No more CM for me on this forum.  Its a shame because this category has so much to offer me and my home situation.

It is a shame.  It amazes me how many snide and rude posts there are from pro clicker/
"postitive" people demeaning CM (and his fans) in the CM section.  It's as if certain people just can't help themselves.  They take a stab every chance they get.  If you despise CM so strongly, why even bother coming into the CM part of the forum?   How many posts are there in the clicker section from CM fans blatantly trashing clicker training?   ZERO!  There are none.  I defy anyone to point one out to me.  Why is this?  I'm really curious. 

It's ridiculous to me how some people feel the need to paint things black or white, with no inbetween.  If you're a clicker/positive trainer, there's no way you could possibly learn anything from the barbaric and cruel Milan, right?   You have to choose one or the other.  It's sad, but that seems to be the mindset of some people.

 
This site mirrors the outside world when it comes to Cesar Millan.  There always seems to be a positive trainer out there who will criticize Cesar's methods or claim that Cesar's methods have set back dog training 20 years.  I have not ever heard Cesar go on a rampage against positive trainers or trainers who use other methods.  Similarly, the same people come here and bash Cesar's methods all the time, yet the behavior does not seem to be reciprocated on the positive training boards. 
 
I mainly lurk here, but even lurking is becoming tiresome because a lot of the threads here seem to turn into "this is why Cesar is wrong" threads.  The purpose of this section of the forum is stated pretty clearly.  It is supposed to be for people who enjoy Cesar.  I know that it has been said that everyone is welcome to participate, but it borders on trollish behavior when it seems like some people only come here to bash Cesar.  I like being able to get substantive information from the clicker boards and other boards.  I would hope that people would allow this section of the board to develop in the same way. 
 
As for Brandon Fouche he seems to share Cesar's pack leader philosophy.  Cesar's philosphy is pretty popular.  He just happens to be the one who got the t.v. show first, so he gets a lot of the credit (and gets a lot of the criticism).
 

I couldn't agree with the both of you more. They come over here with the pretence of *we want to know why people like Cesar,* to only turn around and show their true colors by taking shots at him and the people who like him. Then they go on to...trying to shove clickers down our throats. And yet when I stand up to them and their bs, I'm called a bad guy. And who here is going over to the clicker threads and trying to shove Cesar down their throats?  

ORIGINAL: DPU

Thats it for me, unless the Admin does something serious, No more CM for me on this forum.  Its a shame because this category has so much to offer me and my home situation.

D, was this "
I'll draw a picture. Your walking down the street, you pass a....Cane Corso that is barking, snapping, and choking itself to get at your dog. I say CC but you can place any breed there...like a JRT. But thats! the dog I'm talking about." the reason for your post? I wasn't trying to offend you, just trying to describe the dog and the situation clearly.

Or was it this "Oh...and did someone say..."click to calm"? That's funny. I think I'll end me night with that bit of laughter." because...again, not trying to insult you, it's just that I've worked with many high drive, hard, and aggressive dogs for many years. I live in a large metroplex where there are  A LOT of R+ and clicker trainers and what I *see* for myself is...most of these trainers won't even touch aggressive dogs, and when they do...they normally fail. Some work with *soft* dogs that only seem aggressive, and when they help these dogs they *think* it's the same as working with a truly aggressive dog. That's why I laugh when I here "click to calm". But as I've clearly stated...please...if anyone can show me otherwise, THAT'S GREAT! I'd love to see it. I've also said that while I don't see the need for a clicker, I've seen people teach their dogs to do things using them. And I'm cool with that. Just not so cool with the clicker crowd that constantly comes here to IMO do nothing more than stir up trouble. As many have already logically asked, if they don't like him, don't like his ways, or the people that like him. Why come here??? Oh wait...that's right, they come here to...learn.[]

I can see where you guys are coming from but as far as I am concerned you're all as bad as each other.  I used to come here to discuss CM in an objective light, but its nigh on impossible.  It's fans versus "haters" and it's boring and stupid.  The man and his ideals have flaws as well as good points - I think we should all able to discuss both without the snide remarks - which come from BOTH "sides". 
 
So I want to point out a flaw with something CM advises, or something I saw him do on TV and I get mobbed for a "hater", accused of "bashing" and god knows what else - it's ridiculous.  He's just a celebrity for God's sake.  Who cares. 

  I don't normally comment in this section,but see that there is room for all types or methods of training for all kinds of dogs..

 If clicker training works,that is great,I am sure that there are some dogs that take to it better than others..

 If the methods used by CM work for you...well.Thats great too..There are probably dogs that may not need or respond well to these methods.

 There are many different dogs with different levels of need.Some methods work better for some dogs..I don't get what the argument is all about.

  I have watched a lot of CM's shows,and I never viewed him as a non positive trainer.He doesn't take his corrections to the "out of bounds zone"(meaning hurting the animal)

 I have noticed he takes different tactics depending on the dog,which is a good thing.You may not be able to apply the same tactics on a 100 pound dog as you would on a toy breed.

  I would like to see and hear,in a separate thread,what people do not like about CM,using well thought out argument and reasoning.In the same thread,it would be good to hear why clicker training didn't work for you and your dog.If you havn't tried this method on your dog,then your argument might lose a bit of steam..