CM, his pack, and their relationship.

Considering the fact that most of Cesar's pack consist of throw-away dogs who have ended up with him due to aggression and instability issues. Dogs who have harmed other dogs, were anti-social, or just out of control...and then you see them all chasing after the same ball and getting along...well?
 
I also see how those dogs greet and behave around him, his guests, and unbalanced dogs, and it looks like they are a stable, balanced, and well-adjusted pack to me.
 
I also correspond with Cheri Lucas on occasion. She was the lady featured in his Hurricane Katrina Dogs episode. Outside of the three dogs Cesar took, Cheri took in 22 dogs herself. She is one of the few people who Cesar has "trained" to rehabilitate dogs his way, and work with a large pack. She has up to 50 dogs herself...and a huge combined pack when Cesar visits her with his own mob. []

To be honest, I don't believe one person can have much of a relationship with 40+ dogs. I think his dogs seem to get along quite well with each other, seem content, and are well socialized and accepting of humans, but I question what "relationship" means in that context. Cesar speaks of establishing a "relationship" with a client's dog by taking it for a walk. It's a pretty broad term, in all fairness... after all, I have a relationship of sorts with the mailman, given that I see him often and have short conversations about the weather with him from time to time. I also have a relationship with my fiance that goes a bit deeper than that. "Good, fair, or poor" doesn't do a whole lot to accurately describe something like a human-dog relationship. I would be inclined to look at whether there is trust going both ways (probably yes), intimacy (probably no), a deep mutual understanding (debatable), etc.
 
In order to avoid getting into a spiral of anxiety about your relationship with your dog I think it's helpful to take a pragmatic angle... what a "relationship" with a dog is really all about is having the dog trust you, trusting him in turn, respecting him and getting respect from him, and communicating with him clearly. My issue with CM in that regard is that much of his version of the relationship seems too one-sided. The dog really isn't meant to have a point of view other than the "calm submissive," "pack follower" point of view. The dog really isn't supposed to communicate with or be heard by The Human except within the confines of the "calm submissive" state - which state really does not encompass the whole being and emotional range of a dog.

I don't know what kind of relationship CM has with his dogs when the cameras are gone, but what shows on screen is impressive.
 
Are the dogs happy? It appears they are somewhat happy but not full of joy and new discovery. Certainly better than putting them to sleep.
 
Would I board my dogs with his pack as he does for celebrity clients. No, but maybe Ron Artest (sp?) should consider it. It would be a big improvement for his dogs.

ORIGINAL: Stacita

Are the dogs happy? It appears they are somewhat happy but not full of joy and new discovery.

Well i dont think anybody would like to be in an excited state of mind 24/7 like if they were in a constant "rush", there is nothing better than be relaxed and enjoying life just like when you are laying down next to the ocean, you are happier that way even when you are not showing that you are full of joy at that moment, those dogs have no worries, their needs are fufilled every day, they have someone they truly can call a leader who's not gonna let other members to do something they dont like, etc. What else can they ask in life?

Actually, I hate sunbathing.
 
I've visited Best Friends and the dogs there appear pretty happy. It doesn't scream animal shelter,  but I think most of them would be delighted to have homes where their individual needs rather than just group needs are recognized. All three of my dogs have different desires. For example, Tasha is happiest when she's exploring a new place, but doesn't want to cuddle much. Wolfgang loves to meet new people, but isn't much of an explorer, and Floyd loves to chase balls, and cuddle.
 
In general I think most dogs prefer some tailoring to their individual desires.

I am wondering how many dogs he actually owns at home - ones he sees every morning when he wakes up. I really don't consider all of his 40+ dogs being HIS dogs, unless he takes all of them home at night... Anybody knows?

ORIGINAL: Stacita

Actually, I hate sunbathing.

I've visited Best Friends and the dogs there appear pretty happy. It doesn't scream animal shelter,  but I think most of them would be delighted to have homes where their individual needs rather than just group needs are recognized. All three of my dogs have different desires. For example, Tasha is happiest when she's exploring a new place, but doesn't want to cuddle much. Wolfgang loves to meet new people, but isn't much of an explorer, and Floyd loves to chase balls, and cuddle.

In general I think most dogs prefer some tailoring to their individual desires.

I never said you need to be under the sun

Dogs dont need human sometimes to fufill some of their preferences, i'm sure each dog in CM's pack has different preferences but they fufill those with eachother, the ones that like to cuddle do it together, the ones that like to chase balls play with eachother, etc

Of course Cesar always is looking for families to adopt his dogs, my point is, the dogs in his pack are waaaaayy better than they were before, every time you add a "but" like when your say "It appears they are somewhat happy but not full of joy and new discovery" or "It doesn't scream animal shelter,  but I think most of them would be delighted to have homes" is like saying "thanks for helping but they could be better", i mean,  WTF????? Thank God Cesar found them and toke them under his wing!!!!, like you said, they could be dead by now for sure, or they could be in a place where the people dont care about their needs, where dont care about giving them excersice and mental estimulation every day, thats way more that they could bargain for, if i'm a dog i would be "hey wtf, i cant explore as much as i would like but at least i'm alive thanks to him"

Is like a girl saying to a firefighter who just rescue her from dying from her house in flames "well that sucked, now buy me another channel purse because i loved walked around with it and now the one i had is toasted", i bet the best way to describe that girl would be ungrateful

ORIGINAL: TinaK

I am wondering how many dogs he actually owns at home - ones he sees every morning when he wakes up. I really don't consider all of his 40+ dogs being HIS dogs, unless he takes all of them home at night... Anybody knows?

He sometimes takes a different couple of his dogs home, of course he does not have a home right now to put 40 dogs inside, he actually is moving someplace else where he can live with his dogs so he can have all of them "at home", he is gonna have a 42 acres "backyard" to have them all there

At least 35 of those dogs belong to him, they dont need to be next to your couch to be called "yours", i dont think if you own a horse you cant call him yours just because you have him someplace else,  right?

I don't think it's fair to compare the intimacy of his relationship with his pack of 40 and us and our dogs... Just compare our lifestyles, schedules, etc... I have to walk my dog in blizzard, in humidity, I have to take him with me everywhere I go because I have no assistants... I see C. Millan a lot with Daddy, Coco and this French Bulldog - I'd assume these are the dogs he takes home. If he does, it will be more fair to look at his relationship with these dogs...

he actually is moving someplace else where he can live with his dogs so he can have all of them "at home", he is gonna have a 42 acres "backyard" to have them all there

Oh, so he actually lives/plans to live in the center? I did not know that.

ORIGINAL: Stacita

Are the dogs happy? It appears they are somewhat happy but not full of joy and new discovery. Certainly better than putting them to sleep.

Cesar's pack gets 5-6 hour long walks off leash everyday.  I'm sure they use up all their "joy and new discovery" on the walks.  When you see them at the center they are in chill out mode.

No, I disagree. They aren't sniffing, exploring etc. on the walks. They are not thinking for themselves.  I think it is important for dogs to think for themselves at times, rather than just respond to their leader.  Further, not all dogs can walk that long. I don't know what CM does with dogs with dysplasia etc., but I've found that with a physical problem reducing exercise, mental stimulation takes up much of the slack.

I guess we can speculate all we want, and criticize that because the dogs aren't in a constant state of excitement, they aren't "happy". That walks, swimming in a pool, chasing a ball, and hanging out with a bunch of other calm and stable dogs with a compassionate and calm human leader in the open air all day, just doesn't compare to life lived in confusion with an unstable human, in a cage, or no life at all. [8D]
 
 

If you will re-read my posts I never said the conditions were terrible, or even bad. I simply feel that most dogs, when possible prefer more one-on-one attention than Ceasar or Best Friends can provide.

At no point did I state that animals need to be in a state of constant excitement. However, the belief that it is good for dogs to learn to independently use their brains is not necessarily consistent with unstable or uncaring humans.

Certainly you have the option of believing that dogs are best suited to very large packs where the human leads at all times and they are otherwise crated. In an ideal world, certainly no one would need to adopt or otherwise shelter this many dogs. I admire CM for giving them any type of suitable life, but I do think most dogs would be happier in a smaller group with more independence.
 
Put it this way. In the case of our untimely death we've made arrangements for our dogs along with financial accomodations. If we had the option of leaving the same donation to CM in exchange for caring for our dogs, we would not take it. Perhaps you have made arrangements for your dogs to join CM or perhaps you've made private arrangements. Up to you.