pit bull, dog aggression, and obsession with ball???

Many pits decide they don't like dogs, and many more pits than that are drivey (and drivey dogs can and do become obsessed with balls).

This is just a matter of who they are. Pits are terriers--dogs that are bred to kill small animals, and who therefore are likely to have a high prey drive. And pits are a kind of terrier that has been bred for many years to specialize in fighting and killing other dogs.

Chewbecca, your dog sounds like a normal pit bull...

1. Keep your dog on a lead around other dogs and don't go to dog runs.
2. Desensitize her to a muzzle, that's a responsible thing to do at the vet or whatever if it gives you peace of mind.
3. And give your dog enough varied mental stimulation--make the ball one of many interesting things in her life.

And relax! You're fine, and Chuffy's right. Your dog can smell your worry. It honestly doesn't sound like your dog needs to be cured of anything... except her doggy nature.

ORIGINAL: fisher6000

Many pits decide they don't like dogs, and many more pits than that are drivey (and drivey dogs can and do become obsessed with balls).

This is just a matter of who they are. Pits are terriers--dogs that are bred to kill small animals, and who therefore are likely to have a high prey drive. And pits are a kind of terrier that has been bred for many years to specialize in fighting and killing other dogs.

"This is just a matter of who they are."
"Many pits decide they don't like dogs"

This line of thinking is why we have BSL's. You know these to be facts? Pit owners who raise well balance pits NEVER have problems with their "pits" hating another dog. "who they are" Who are they? Natural born killers?

I've seen almost every breed under the sun who unbalanced become dog and human aggressive. Who are they? Misfits?

Check those spelling errors would ya.

Oh and to all of you who own pits, be careful, you might have a dog that can turn any moment. [sm=banghead002.gif]

I really think it's time to take a break from here after that one. I see it going really bad.

Peace

Edited to say, I know I come across strong and hard sometimes, and debates get heated, but I actually didn't come here to fight, but to sare information. But that doesn't seem that that is possible. Fighting doesn't help anyone and no one has all the right answers. And now I sees this breed specific bs, and I know it can only go down hill from there. So have fun, I'll stick to what I do.

[linkhttp://www.badrap.org/rescue/dogdog.cfm]Here is a little something I was linked to the other day.[/link]

While I DO believe that pit bulls may be predisposed to be DA, it CAN BE workable. That is why I am doing the socialization with the trainer's dog. But it's being done slowly. Ella LOVES LOVES LOVES my in laws' giant schnauzer. But I've come across dogs that I just KNOW had I not had a hold of her leash, she would have attacked.

I still would never trust a pit bull alone with another dog but I really wouldn't leave any dogs alone together.

EARLY socialization and continual socialization is the KEY with raising dog friendly dogs. But even then, awsomedog, even then pit bulls can become sometimes at least only dog tolerant. They CAN change. And no, unfriendly dog pit bulls or those who recognize the propensity pit bulls have for DA are NOT the reason we have BSL.

Part of why we have BSL is because there's owners who are uneducated and/or deny their pit bull's DA. AND the fact that half the world mistakes DA for HA. I mean, that's only a tiny part. I won't go into the MAJOR reason we have BSL, but responsible owners who don't just waltz on into Petco with their pit bull to show the whole store and world just HOW WONDERFUL their pit bull is with the public, are definitely NOT the reason.

It's plain ignorance to deny the drive of a pit bull and NOT to be aware of what a pit bull COULD do to another dog.

ORIGINAL: chewbecca

It's plain ignorance to deny the drive of a pit bull and NOT to be aware of what a pit bull COULD do to another dog.

The "ignorance" is on your part not mine. Other than reading some articals, what's your field of expertise? It's people like you who are the problem. Not the breed.

I knew this is where this cr*p was heading, and i should bow out and just let the ignorance flow.

I think calling other forum members ignorant at this point is completely uncalled for. And throwing out the dramatic "BSL" line is just hype.
 
You are not talking to someone who "just read an article", she owns the dog we are discussing!
 
Denying the breed characteristics of dogs is silly - you know if you own a greyhound, there's a pretty good chance it can't be trusted off leash. If you own a pitbull, you need to be aware of their potential DA issues and be proactive about it. If you can socialize your pit like crazy, and genetics are right, there may never be an issue. If you adopt a pit (as I believe the OP did), you inherit and deal with problems left by the previous owner. It's not ignorance, or pro-BSL, or any other dramatic label you slap on it - it's just an owner wanting to safely address her dog's issues. No one here is saying pit bulls don't make good pets.

"This is just a matter of who they are."
"Many pits decide they don't like dogs"

This line of thinking is why we have BSL's. You know these to be facts? Pit owners who raise well balance pits NEVER have problems with their "pits" hating another dog. "who they are" Who are they? Natural born killers?

I've seen almost every breed under the sun who unbalanced become dog and human aggressive. Who are they? Misfits?

 

Fighting doesn't help anyone and no one has all the right answers. And now I sees this breed specific bs

 

  The "ignorance" is on your part not mine. Other than reading some articals, what's your field of expertise? It's people like you who are the problem. Not the breed.

I knew this is where this cr*p was heading, and i should bow out and just let the ignorance flow.

 
Breed specific BS????  ALL breeds have tendencies to do this or that or develop a certain way, impacted by what they were bred for, pits included.  That's why humans bother to selectively breed in the first place.  Being aware of those drives and being proactive about them makes chewbacca as far from ignorant as it is possible to be.  It's not pleasant, but even lovers of the breed have to face up to the fact that it was originally bred for an unsavoury purpose and take steps to counter that.  Sticking your head in the sand, pretending all that selective breeding didn't happen and moaning about BSL isn't going to do the breed any favours.  As for that last quote, you said yourself fighting doesn't help anyone so what was the point in that?  It contributed ZERO to the thread and was frankly its insulting to chewbacca who is obviously a loving and caring responsible dog owner who has taken some time to research her breed so she can do her best by her dog.  "Not coming here to fight" my eye. 

Right now, I own a vizsla. They are sporting dogs, and are bred for high endurance. So I feel that it is my responsibility to honor his breeding and give him the exercise he needs.

I have a good friend who has a basenji. As a sighthound, he really can't be trusted entirely off-lead, so we make sure to go to dog parks that are entirely enclosed when we hang out together.

Eley owns a Fila. And understands that the dog was bred for protection, and that this can lead to a higher incident of human and interdog aggression. Eley works *with* this knowledge instead of denying it.

Responsible dog owners all over the world look to their dog's breeding when thinking about how to best lead them. I have a lot of good friends who own pits. They are incredible dogs with much to offer their owners--I love my pit bull friends! About half the pits I personally know don't like at least some other dogs. About a third of them have seriously hurt another dog. This doesn't make them bad dogs--they are doing what they were originally bred to do.

But if my friends who own them didn't take this potential to hurt someone else's dog seriously, then they would certainly be irresponsible owners, wouldn't they? Just as I would be very irresponsible if I got a vizsla and didn't let him run for one or two hours every day?

Frankly, Awsomedog, as far as BSL goes, your wilful ignorance about pits does a lot more to further this kind of terrible legislation than simply working with it. People who own any kind of dog should do their research, and endeavor to make their dogs the best representative of that breed.

It's impossible to do that when you can't see something that just about every pit owner that I know will readily admit.

ORIGINAL: Awsomedog

ORIGINAL: chewbecca

It's plain ignorance to deny the drive of a pit bull and NOT to be aware of what a pit bull COULD do to another dog.

The "ignorance" is on your part not mine. Other than reading some articals, what's your field of expertise? It's people like you who are the problem. Not the breed.

I knew this is where this cr*p was heading, and i should bow out and just let the ignorance flow.

I'm sorry, I was speaking about ignorance in general, that wasn't necessarily pointed at you.

But my knowledge started with articles and then moved on into to ownership. I have a pit bull (not sure if she's APBT mix or Amstaff mix, but for all other purposes, she's a pit bull of sorts). For all temperamental reasons, she might as well be a full pit bull without the "mix".

And you're right, the breed is NOT the problem. Owners are/can be. A pit bull is NOT a dog for a novice owner. Novice owners put this breed at risk for BSL.

My dog is a human lover. She loves ALL humans (as far as I know) and is gentler with my children than she is with me. She plays with them and will NOT jump on them. She almost follows their commands better than she does mine. Pit bulls are fabulous pets. Provided just like any other dog they have not been abused to the point of HA, or they don't have something neurologically or medically wrong with them.

How am I doing wrong by this breed? How am I ignorant? How am I promoting an attitudes towards BSL?

I am VERY aware of how fast and strong my breed is. Things can happen in split second before you're even aware of what just happened. I KNOW first hand. Why do you not believe that the history of the pit bull genetically plays a part in what the dog is like today???

And yes, like Chuffy said, all breeds have tendancies towards certain things/behaviors. And DA is that for pit bulls. You just learn to deal with that fact and love your dog. I have. But it's not the end. The pit bull doesn't always have to remain DA if he becomes that way. You can sometimes make a dog dog selective or dog tolerant through constant socialization done with a professional. See, DA is one of those Nature vs. Nurture things where, yeah, a pit bull may become DA or be predisposed for it, but something in its environment may or may not trigger that to come out and who knows what triggers it, but it happens. But I think by changing a dog's environment (like socializing a dog properly or whatever a professional would do) you can help them not be DA. I think. I mean, at least the people at bad rap are doing it.

That's a pit in your avatar, right, awsomedog? Is that your dog? Gorgeous dog! If that is your dog, please don't deny that your dog could turn DA one day. It may or may not ever happen, but don't close your eyes to the possibility because if you do, something ugly may happen and you're going to feel horrible and carry a guilt that you could never wish to know.

ORIGINAL: Scout in Canada

I think calling other forum members ignorant at this point is completely uncalled for. And throwing out the dramatic "BSL" line is just hype.

Well then think again.

You are not talking to someone who "just read an article", she owns the dog we are discussing!

Denying the breed characteristics of dogs is silly - you know if you own a greyhound, there's a pretty good chance it can't be trusted off leash.

Really? I know people who do just that. Do you know why they can. They actually give their dog what he needs as a dog.

If you own a pitbull, you need to be aware of their potential DA issues and be proactive about it. If you can socialize your pit like crazy, and genetics are right, there may never be an issue. If you adopt a pit (as I believe the OP did), you inherit and deal with problems left by the previous owner.

Pit breeds are born powerful, *not mean* and it's your and some others who thinking is dangerous for the breed, not mine. And like any other breed, if you give them what they need, you can raise and even help rescued ones become well balanced. Owning one, and reading a few books on them doesn't make someone a expert on the breed.

It's not ignorance, or pro-BSL, or any other dramatic label you slap on it - it's just an owner wanting to safely address her dog's issues. No one here is saying pit bulls don't make good pets.

Really? So saying that the breed can turn at any time, makes them what, sound like good pets. Lets run with that. Breeders sellings their pups (now be careful, he/she may turn on your family at some point). People trying to actually stop BSL's (they're great dog, you just have to watch them, because they might one day flip out and attack). Gee I can see already how well that's working out. So everyone that owns a pit or is standing around one, beware, it might just turn to a killer.

Now I knew this was going to get ugly, and why I'm here i don't know. I guess because I work so hard to save this breed only to here stuff like this. Do you truely think you are helping the breed by stating *it can snap any moment*.

Here's what I've seen. Owning and working with this breed, shows one just the opposite of what your *claiming*.  The Pit breeds were originally bred to work, yes they are powerful dogs (again, power doesn't equal mean). People that truely understand the breed know that the breed requires A LOT of work so that that power is never used in a unbalanced way. If you own the breed and it's has issues, that's the human that's raising thems fault, not the dogs. Humans, always willing to shift blame. I'd suggest you work harder at fulfilling you dogs needs or get another breed.

And other than owning the breed, how many of you also work with the breed?

Breeders sellings their pups (now be careful, he/she may turn on your family at some point). People trying to actually stop BSL's (they're great dog, you just have to watch them, because they might one day flip out and attack). Gee I can see already how well that's working out. So everyone that owns a pit or is standing around one, beware, it might just turn to a killer.

Nobody is saying this.

Pits are notoriously friendly to humans and trustworthy with children. They were bred to be intense people-pleasers with a very *low* tendency to attack people. Human attacks by pit bulls are so sad because they are so obviously out of character for the breed.

They have a tendency to develop interdog aggression. A lot of terriers do. This is a trait that is easily managed by an aware owner. To understand what your dog is capable of is not to "shift blame." In fact, it's the opposite. It is to take responsibility for your dog.

The OP sounds as if she is working pretty hard with her dog.

And it sounds as if she has excellent help via her trainer/behavorist.

wait a minute, wait a minute.

I guess working with my dog with training and working with a trainer on socializing my dog doesn't mean knowing the breed.
Speaking with individuals who rescue the breed and work with them daily, means nothing. I suppose I'm inexperienced because I do not train tons of pit bulls daily.

And I want to know: Who the heck equated human aggression with dog aggression? No, no one has claimed that a pit bull will turn and kill a human because DA and HA are completely different things. You know this, awsomedog.
A pit bull CAN turn DA though between the ages 2-5. That is usually when it happens, but it can happen before and it can happen after. OR...it can never happen. But the chances of it happening are WAY greater than the chances of it NOT happening. Yes, pit bulls were bred to work, but let's NOT FORGET that they were ALSO bred to fight, and the latter is what has happened most recently. Therefore, owners that bred these dogs to fight, bred the most DA dogs they could get their hands on. This NOW makes the breed genetically predisposed for DA. No one is claiming a pit bull will "turn" on a human. They can, however, turn on other dogs. It is DANGEROUS to NOT recognize this possibility. Even the MOST responsible owners and trainers and behaviorists of these dogs will NOT leave these dogs unattended with other dogs. DO NOT fool yourself, awsomedog.
So, you're telling me if you were in rescue or a breeder and you adopted out or sold a pit bull, you're not going to tell your potential adopter/buyer that they need to be watchful of their new dog around other dogs and not to trust their new dog around other dogs once they become an adult dog???? No amount of training or work should make one be able to trust a pit bull around another dog unsupervised, ever. It takes a second. A SPLIT second. Faster than you can blink, move your hand or finger. And if you think otherwise, you are doing a horrible injustice to this breed.
That's dangerous.

I love pit bulls and will probably NEVER own another breed, but they DO require work and supervision. At the first sign of one becoming DA, yes, one should consult a behaviorist because it CAN BE workable.

But don't turn your head to facts, awsomedog. Don't. And they ARE facts. Contact ANY pit bull rescue or reputable breeder and I SWEAR to you that they will NOT tell you differently.

I think pretty much any bully person can agree that Diane Jessup has both owned and worked with APBTs.  In fact, I believe that at one time (or maybe he still is) her dog Dread was the most titled dog in the most areas.  These statements comes straight from her website.  Please read these statements carefully and tell me, is Diane Jessup just ignorant?:

"Remember though, pit bulls are tough and intelligent animals, historically bred for a willingness to test their mettle against larger and stronger animals and against each other. It is not uncommon for an adult pit bull to be very quarrelsome toward other dogs while being very friendly to humans, and to expect him to be otherwise is unfair to the dog, to yourself and to the community in which you live."

"[font="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"]Many working breeds have antipathy towards other animals - coonhounds go mad at the sight of a raccoon, foxhounds will not hesitate to tear a dog-like fox to shreds, greyhounds and other sight hounds live to chase and maul rabbits and will eagerly kill cats. They are still used today to chase down and slaughter coyotes. Even the ever-friendly beagle will "murder" a rabbit, given the chance. And yet the greyhound, coon and foxhound and beagle are among the friendliest of breeds towards humans. And it is the same with the well bred pit bulldog."

"[font="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"]From his history as a hunter's gripping dog, butcher's bull-baiter and gambler's dog fighter, the pit bull has inherited a strong desire to test his mettle against other animals. Many pit bulls are friendly with other dogs, and many live with cats and livestock, but it is not unusual for some pit bulls to be intolerant of other dogs and animals. Despite the good intentioned advice of dog trainers who have little experience with bulldogs, or who fail to understand the dynamic nature of the breed, training and early socialization has only a minor effect on how dog aggressive a specific pit bull will become once it matures."

That last sentence in the post was pretty interesting.

"[color="#000000"] training and early socialization has only a minor effect on how dog aggressive a specific pit bull will become once it matures." [/color]

I would think that the OP would always have to be working with this then?

Or at least, it may be a probability that her work addressing DA via trainer may be ongoing?