Seeking definition

would HA and FA both be subsets of DA per your definitions?

If you are going to bandy about a term like "red zone", which is an emotional term, to me it should truly refer to a dog that would absolutely commit serious aggression if the handler lost control of the dog.

what if there was no handler around to control the dog?

this happens on (rare) occasion.

ORIGINAL: lostcoyote

would HA and FA both be subsets of DA per your definitions?

Not at all.  Human Aggression is a dog that aggresses towards humans.

Dog aggression is a dog that aggresses towards dogs.

Fear Aggression could be targeted toward either dogs or humans.

what if there was no handler around to control the dog?

this happens on (rare) occasion.

Then that dog might live in your neighborhood.  [][][]

ORIGINAL: espencer

Is like when you take an energy drink, when you have the effects going on you can be at "2,000 miles an hour" but when the effect goes away you are "normal" again, if the dog could be in a constant "red zone" 24/7 his/her body and mind would not be able to handle it

Actually I think this might be a "red bull" dog. []

I agree that the term "red zone"---along with the suspenseful music---is used to heighten the entertainment value of the show. Sort of like some of the other NGC programs where someone pokes a rhino with a stick or something.

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs
I think the term "red zone" is being used to hype the guy's "whisperer" status, not as an accurate description of the dogs he's dealing with.

I think you're right in that it's a neat little catch phrase, but I don't see how it's inaccurate. It's a GENERAL term describing the result of several different conditions.

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs
What the heck is wrong with terms like "aroused", "reactive", "anxious" or "aggressive" to describe what's going on? 

There's nothing wrong with those words and if we were to get more specific about what's going on with a particular dog, these terms would come up, I'm sure. But "red zone" is a term that encompasses them all. Regardless of the reason (aroused, reactive, anxious or aggressive), the result is a dog in the "red zone". The red zone is more or a quantiative term. You can have an aggressive or reactive dog that never visits the red zone. It's an umbrella term that encompasses not only the reason, but the trigger (human, dog, food, fear), as well.

It's like using the phrase "Socially Disfunctional" for people who have severe Tourette Syndrome or Autism or ADHD -- to such an extent that they cannot operate within society. Some people who have these disorders can function just fine, so pointing to the particular symdrome doesn't accurately reflect the extent of their illness. "Red zone" describes the degree of the condition more than the specific trigger or response.

[:@] Firefox spell checker doesn't work here... []

I see a "red zone" dog as one who deliberately, calmly, and cold-bloodedly chooses to attack. A dog who is "under his own control" while being aggressive. These dogs are fortunately VERY rare and would make short work of CM. Think of the wolf-hybrid McConnel describes in The Other End of the Leash that bit her very cold-bloodly to "remind her not to do that again". That's a "red zone" dog.

The first time I ever heard the term "Red Zone" dogs was on CM show.  So always assumed it was a CM label which he uses for extremely aggressive dogs.  Dog who are aggressive towards people and other dogs?

Maybe that is why there is no clear definition.   If this team did come from CM than its all opinions from there...

Exactly!  "Red Zone" is a CM term and concept.  And the dogs he labels red zone are often undertrained and excitable.  From what I gather, he uses the term to describe a dog who is at risk of doing injury to another animal or person.  Untrained and excited dogs can and do hurt others.

Calm and submissive seems to be his opposite of red zone.  Red zone = excited and out of control, rather than calm and submissive. 

ORIGINAL: Dog_ma
Calm and submissive seems to be his opposite of red zone.  Red zone = excited and out of control, rather than calm and submissive. 

I think the opposite of calm, submissive is excited, dominant. A dog who is excited and dominant OR out of control isn't necessarily going to cause harm to another person or dog, as a red zone dog is.

I think it's interesting that CM is attributed to making this phrase up, but we're all arguing over what it means. LOL If he made it up, then it's his term and only HE can tell us what he means by it.
I have rarely seen him label a dog as red zone. I disagree that he labels "excited and out of control" dogs as red zone.

Quote from Cesar:

"A red zone is when a dog is in attack mode against another animal or a human. It is not a dominant or territorial thing. The intention of the red zone dog is to assault its target until he exhausts it. Until there is no life left,"

[linkhttp://www.pawspot.com/info/page/pawsitivelynews?entry=cesar_millan_the_dog_whisperer]http://www.pawspot.com/info/page/pawsitivelynews?entry=cesar_millan_the_dog_whisperer[/link]

ORIGINAL: Dog_ma

Exactly!  "Red Zone" is a CM term and concept.  And the dogs he labels red zone are often undertrained and excitable.  From what I gather, he uses the term to describe a dog who is at risk of doing injury to another animal or person.  Untrained and excited dogs can and do hurt others.

Calm and submissive seems to be his opposite of red zone.  Red zone = excited and out of control, rather than calm and submissive. 

I aggree he doesn't label excited and out of control dogs red zone.  Cesar works with unstable and untrained, out of control dogs on every show, they are not red zoned.  He specificly in his article posted by espenser refers to it a 'RED ZONE AGGRESSIVE"  They are aggressive when labled red zoned.
 
I saw two episode with dogs he classified as Red Zone, they were both aggressive, extreamly towards people and other/or other dogs.
 
I don't know if CM coined this phrase?   I do know I never heard it before him.

the only other context I've ever heard Red Zone is in reference to extremely dangerous, lawless sections of certain cities.

Off-Topic: There's a section of Mexico City called "Zona Rosa", or red zone. But I thought that had more to do with illicit pleasures than thugishness, though those things often go hand in hand. []

On-Topic: So, has "Red Zone Dog" been part of dog vocabulary before Millan, any one recall having seen/heard it?

ORIGINAL: Ixas_girl

Off-Topic: There's a section of Mexico City called "Zona Rosa", or red zone. But I thought that had more to do with illicit pleasures than thugishness, though those things often go hand in hand. []

 
Actually "Zona Rosa" means "pink zone"
 
[linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zona_Rosa]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zona_Rosa[/link]

I always thought he used it to mean dogs that were in danger of losing their homes or thier lives as a result of their behavior...last resort dogs, dogs in a danger zone because their options were EXTREMELY limited. The dog need not be a threat to disembowel a human...simply enough of a bother and stress to it's owner that euthanasia and/or rehoming was being seriously considered if no help could be found.
 
So there's another interpretation...

I think a lot of the Millan-inspired vocab could use with a serious hashing out of definitions. I often find myself very confused and the definitions given on the website and the show seem very circular in nature--they only make sense if you already agree with the foundational concepts and have decided to take a fair amount just on faith. Whenever I hear "red-zone" I always assumed it meant a dog who was dangerously aggressive towards humans, and unpredictable. But Gina's right, it did always have this overtone of "dog about to be pts due to these problems".

But I also I think always thought of "red zone" more as description of a place than of a dog. The red zone, when a dog goes into a frenzy such that they are unpredictable, loose their ability to focus on anything else, and just start going purely by their animal instinct to fight--to kill instead of being killed.