Losing Patience w/ new dog... (lots of reading)

*Refers to previously deleted content*

Espencer, you referenced these two paragraphs from the CM site which I also found in bad taste since in my life I have had these experiences with residence dogs plus all the fosters that come and go.  The parting of a dog whether by death or rehoming is an emotional event for the human.  Each one of us processes the grief differently.  The paragraphs are in bad taste because it implies we do harm for the new dog or the new foster that enters our home.  I whole heartily agree with the OP.
 
"In my opinion, humans seem to be afraid to go through the grief cycle. We tend to want to stop the painful feelings quickly, often without fully processing our own grief. To a lot of dog owners, this may mean replacing the pet right away. It#%92s not a coincidence that a disproportionate number of my cases involve a problem that started with this common situation. Bringing a new animal into a household that#%92s still mourning is not a wise thing to do — for you, or for your remaining pet.
 
When we do this, the animals become stuck in our grief and depression. If a human isn#%92t finish grieving, the new or remaining animals are going pick up on this “weak” energy. From that very moment, that dog is in control of both of their lives and becomes unbalanced."

Her fearfulness doesn't necessarily mean she was abused, she may just have been very unsocialized around children and men.  As said above though, it's a perfect time to move forward and start again


I'd start with crating her when company comes over. It will eliminate decisions from her like 'where do I go..what will they do to me..how do i act'. I would start with crating her in another room, where she can hear the company, but will not have to deal with seeing them.   After a bit of this, I'd crate her in the same room, but have no one address her or look at her.  Even later when she's showing no signs of anxiety with this set up, I'd have company quietly speak to her, and much later, when she is comfy with that, leash her to me.

As for the pooping outside, perhaps you can take her for a walk around the block, and then take her to your yard? Sometimes a little exercise will get things going. Otherwise, I'd just keep her leashed to me at all times.  You'll likely catch her actions of having to 'go' this way, and be able to quickly usher her outside.
 
As for the 'quickness' of getting another dog, everyone is different, and grieves in different ways. I've always felt it the utmost honor to a previous dog's memory to give a new dog a much needed home. As long as one can accept that this is a new dog and not the old one, with new quirks and temperament (and you certainly seem to be doing this, I was speaking in general terms), I see no problem whatsoever

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go slow, do not rush you must establish a relationship and trust before taking the dog to a training class.

I'm going to disagree with that, with the proviso that the dog is not subjected to corrective methods early in your relationship (or ever, as far as my personal views go).  I have only purchased one dog in my lifetime, and the rest were rescues.  Of those dogs, the ones with the strongest bond to me were the ones that began training the day they stepped through the door.  And, the most obedient, and trusting, were the ones who were taken to class.  Now, if your dog is terribly frightened of other dogs, you would certainly want to choose a class that addresses that.  Many training centers are offering shy dog class, or "nervous nellies", and many more are offering "feisty fido" for the dogs that react on leash at the sight of other dogs.  Get in touch with a  really good positive trainer in your area and ask for advice.  With the herding dogs, much of what they learn is pretty instant - they are smart, and they problem solve well.  So, best to get started communicating!

The fact that she is OK with the men who live there says that she's just afraid of new people. There may be a reason or perhaps she's just terribly undersocialized.

Great point, and I would add that herding dogs are often "reserved" with strangers, and some are never ok with intruders.  In an undersocialized dog, you would not want to force anyone on her.  Do as Four is Company has suggested - have them ignore her, and let her go to them to take a sniff - they should resist the temptation to pat if she does.  The movement alone will make some dogs skitter away, and some may nip if the are scared enough.  Prevent!  Some herders have a history as farm guardians, too, and they may feel it's their "job" to act.  If you implement NILIF and the ignore principle, she might develop a sense that the humans are in charge and will not feel she has to step in.

Onyx, I have a new dog too and she was just as you say, very shy and fearful, did not poop AT ALL for FOUR days!  She has gotten a lot better.  She will pee just fine, but she will still only poop in one specific spot at one specific time of the day.  I always take her to the same spot b/c it must smell like "her" spot.  As for strangers, I crate her when people come over and then if she looks like she wants to come out, I let her come out after a while.  For some reason, my dog is only feaful and skittish in our house.  She likes to meet people on walks and is fine at strange places, but in our home she is shy and is still very shy towards my husband.  I've done my best to establish a routine for her.  She goes out to pee in the morning and runs around, goes for a mid-day run and will poop, goes out to pee and play after work, goes for a 2 mile walk after dinner, and goes out to pee once more before bed.  Now she knows what to expect and isn't nervous about where we are going or what we are doing.

I also disagree with waiting to start training classes.  I got this dog through a rescue from a woman who has been breeding and working dogs for decades and owns her own training center.  She encouraged me to start training after the second week, so we've already had two weeks of agility class and start her next level of obedience in Sept.  The classes has been good for us b/c it gives us a way to bond while doing something that builds her confidence.  It also is good practice for practical things like manners around other dogs and people, riding in the car, performing basic obedience, etc.

ORIGINAL: DPU

Espencer, you referenced these two paragraphs from the CM site which I also found in bad taste since in my life I have had these experiences with residence dogs plus all the fosters that come and go.  The parting of a dog whether by death or rehoming is an emotional event for the human.  Each one of us processes the grief differently.  The paragraphs are in bad taste because it implies we do harm for the new dog or the new foster that enters our home.  I whole heartily agree with the OP.

"In my opinion, humans seem to be afraid to go through the grief cycle. We tend to want to stop the painful feelings quickly, often without fully processing our own grief. To a lot of dog owners, this may mean replacing the pet right away. It's not a coincidence that a disproportionate number of my cases involve a problem that started with this common situation. Bringing a new animal into a household that's still mourning is not a wise thing to do — for you, or for your remaining pet.
 
When we do this, the animals become stuck in our grief and depression. If a human isn't finish grieving, the new or remaining animals are going pick up on this "weak” energy. From that very moment, that dog is in control of both of their lives and becomes unbalanced."

 
Well i dont think is bad taste because actually it happens to some people, if is not the OP's case or yours then like Ixas said, ignore it

I want to clarify the reason I suggested waiting for classes. I got the idea from the OP that the dog might be scared to the point of incapacitation if she were put into a room of strangers and other dogs. If a class instructor is willing to deal with that and thinks it's the best way to go, then it may be the right thing to do, although I'm still not sure I'd do it right away. I would want to build some trust first.

If my interpretation of the dog's fear level was incorrect and she would be just fine in this group, then by all means get her into a class as soon as you can. []

Sorry for the confusion and I hope that's clear now. I just can't see taking a dog to a class and forcing her to be among a lot of strangers in a strange place if she's just going to shake and pee herself. I don't think that experience would be good for the bonding with her new owner. [sm=happy.gif]

ORIGINAL: espencer

Well i dont think is bad taste because actually it happens to some people, if is not the OP's case or yours then like Ixas said, ignore it

 

*Refers to previously deleted content* As referenced, I for one am not buying totally into the mystical magical energy or sending one's emotional feeling down the leash that a lot here profess to exist.  I believe that is what the OP was communicating when asked to respond to the question of getting a dog too soon after the death of a residence dog.  

I also think giving the dog time to adjust to its new surrounding is important for the dog's mental well being.    Too much too soon can just add stress to the dog.  Plus, the dog may be a disruption in the class creating a discouraging situation to the owner. 

ORIGINAL: DPU

I for one am not buying totally into the mystical magical energy or sending one's emotional feeling down the leash that a lot here profess to exist. 

 
Dont worry i dont now anybody in this forum that professes "mystical magical energy" and i think Patrcia McConnell agrees that your emotions can run thru the leash (if you want to say it that way) but thats for another topic

To the OP, Onyx:

In this thread you've gotten a wide range of answers.  My take on the situation is one based upon my experiences with fostering an adult dog with a fear of adult females.

First it will take a few weeks for her true personality to come out.  Right now you should be establishing routine, perform the tasks that you would normall perform if the dog wasn't there.  Feeding times should be set...ie: the dog eats at 8am and 4pm (just as an example) and that happens every day at that time.  Outside times happen at pre-established intervals as well.  If she eliminates outside praise her.  If she defecates inside the home, then clean it up and place it in the yard and allow the scent to get onto the chosen area that you would like for her to defecate in.  The next time she goes to that area and sniffs, offer her quiet praise.  Even if it's praise in body language only-that will effectively communicate to her that she is doing something correct.  In all likelihood I would begin housetraining as if she's never been housetrained before.

With her fear issues, building her confidence is key.  Routine will help her understand and feel at ease with the workings of the household.  You should also begin by setting the boundaries-no furniture, no kitchen or whatever the case might be.  With her not wanting to take treats or eat them in your presence, I would feed her only in her crate.  Give her confidence that her food is hers and you will not take it.  In fact I would completely leave the room after she is fed. 

Little by little you should see her gain confidence as you gently praise the good.  Manage the environment as much as possible so she cannot perform any undesired behaviors (digging through trash, etc...) She seems to be nervous already.

Introductions to strangers should be done with as minimal interaction as possible.  New people should ignore her, not looking, talking to, or touching her.  Since she doesn't seem to be food motivated at this point, turning them into treat dispensers will probably not help-but later, if she does become more food motivated that would be the next step.  They still ignore her but toss little pieces of high value (roast beef or liverwurst or something smelly and good) near her.  She will begin to associate new people with good stuff.[]

You could also try a few drops of "clomicalm" in her water each day.  That might quell some of the nervousness.

I hope this helps.  Please keep us updated.[]

Not much has changed, I see the same players are still at it.
 
Help the OP with suggestions and keep the banter out of the thread, Yes, I'm back!

Help the OP with suggestions and keep the banter out of the thread, Yes, I'm back!

HOOORAAAAYYY!!
And, Onyx, I believe spiritdogs/Anne, Xerxes, and FourIsCompany have given great advice so far - Anne/spiritdogs as a professional trainer has roven to be a reliable source for many of us.  Good luck and please know we're here to support and offer other suggestions along your travels with your new girl.

SOUNDS LIKE THE DOG IS SUFFERING FROM SEPERATION ANXIETY. THEY WILL POOP INDOORS  WHEN SUFFERING FROM THE LOST OF THE LAST OWNER. THE DOG MAY NEED HELP GOING OUTSIDE. LIKE, IF YOU HAVE A FRIEND WITH A DOG WALK THEM TOGETHER SO THAT YOUR DOG CAN SEE THE OTHER ONE POOPIN OUTSIDE. MIGHT HELP.

Espencer, if it is already determined that the dog is wary, fearful and skittish then CM just might not be the most appropriate trainer for her to be looking to for advice.  As to getting another dog that soon, I got Max a month after losing my previous dog, a 15-1/2 yr. old lab/cocker X.  I hadn't planned on getting a dog just then - I just went to the shelter to donate an unopened  bag of senior dog food.  But we know how that goes. [] It was one of the best decisions I've ever made, even though I made it on the spot without  thinking  twice about it.
 
Joyce