Training vs. Psychology

I wish that everyone who does not see that behavior can be modified via operant conditioning would get a clicker and find something that motivates their own dogs (food, toy, etc.- with most dogs roast beef works),  go to www.clickerlessons.com and try clicker training for two weeks. I would be willing to bet that then you would understand much better what mudpuppy, ron, and I have been trying to say here. If you still don't get it after that, probably no hope. []  Granted, training involves teaching a skill, but that skill is then used to manage the dog.  But, at that point, there's at least a basis for communication that the dog understands.

And furthermore, operant conditioning is based in an understanding of psychology. Here is my humble, worthless opinion. Psychology is not exemplified by any style based purely on physical corrections. To use and understand clicker training is to use psychology of an animal to its full advantage. In short, dogs do what works, pure and simple. And that never, ever changes, whether the dog quits growling to avoid another collar pop, or downs in a split second because it means a great reward.
 
So, I train my dog to sit, down, heel, here. Getting him to do those things in the face of distraction means he is paying attention to me. The fact that he is paying attention to me and being calm in the face of distraction speaks to his psychology in the moment. We understand psychology to effectively train. We train to have an effect on psychology.

training your dogs to do certain things with certain commands reliably is great. if one is demonstrating calm leadership (projected energy) during the traininf exercises then is one is also simultaneously (subconsciously without even knowing it) using the power of psychology as an assist. sometimes, they just go hand in hand without one even knowing it - imo.

if one is demonstrating calm leadership (projected energy) during the traininf exercises then is one is also simultaneously

 
I'll agree conditionally to that. If the training is rock solid, it helps the human's confidence. Also, the human's list of fears or lack of them will make a difference in how they walk, talk, and handle the dog. And dogs can smell when you are afraid.
 
But I think training and confidence in the training help an owner feel secure and calm.
 
Some people can't help but be afraid. They come along with their little whatsitspoo and think my "wolf" is going to eat their dog for a snack and they flinch and jerk and draw a wide path around. They don't know that Shadow's old boss was a JRT and a tomcat, so he he's used to small animals.  That he doesn't usually start the fight, though he could finish it.
 
I remain calm, as usual.
 

ORIGINAL: lostcoyote

training vs. psychology

just the title of the topic pits one up against the other it seems with many folks seemingly blessing one while cursing the other.

how many of ya folks actually use BOTH depending upon the situation and/or what you're trying to accomplish?

 
 
I do both and I think they both have equal value depending on the circumstances.