Mutilating Paws - Out of Options - What do we do?

ORIGINAL: denise_m

DogLover, I hope you find the answer to Snowballs problems. I can tell you love your dog very much and you will do whatever you can to help him. I would never judge anyone until I walked in their shoes! I'm not sure what my "limit" would be with my dog and I pray I never have to make that determination. Prayers for you and Snowball!

 
Thank you.  I have spent the past three days in tears off and on, trying to figure out what to do next.  My dog is suffering right now, and I can't stand it for him.  I hope today's appointment is fruitful!

Yes, the vet placed Snowball on Prozac for the obsessive paw mutilation/chewing. We are trying to see if Snowball is mutilating his paws and pulling out his hair for behaviorial reasons.

 
So this was the problem first before the prozac...very well could be a fungus, allergy or enviornmental issues
 
This is what I found on your food
[linkhttp://www.hillspet.com/zSkin_2/products/product_details.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441760430&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302037389]http://www.hillspet.com/zSkin_2/products/product_details.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441760430&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302037389[/link]
 
The chewing started before the food changes also. Chicken is in this food.
I would suggest starting an elimination diet, since this food has not wheat in it my next step would be to remove the chicken from the diet.
Have you tried any of the following foods?





 

I guess we disagree about how far we would go to save our dogs.  I'm sure you love yours, but I think you hit nerves when you say things like you would go just so far so that you don't interfere with the humans in your life.  That's fine, for you, but perhaps better left unsaid on a dog forum, where many of us would give all we have to have been able to save one special dog in our lives.  Some of us believe in a Creator that who tells us that there is wisdom in all living things and that all are sacred.  And, while I might not elevate my dogs over the humans in my life, I certainly would elevate them over carpet, or any other material thing, since they are living, sentient beings.
However, I am glad you are taking the steps to have the dog tested, and I think you may find that you will be able to solve the puzzle with the help of a good vet and some persistence.  Please take Jaime's advice. She's not as much of an extremist as I, but she knows that these problems can often be solved if we are not hasty.  It sounds like your new vet's assistant is right on the money with her questioning of the Prozac.  One would not ordinarily assume that a problem is behavioral until all physical causes are ruled out.  That makes me think the second vet may be of more help to you than the first.
Also, you may want to PM Callie about finding a holistic vet to consult with if this doesn't prove fruitful.  One of my friends, about to euth a young dog with multiple seizures, did that - and the holistic vet helped.  The dog has been seizure free ever since.

Please take Jaime's advice. She's not as much of an extremist as I, but she knows that these problems can often be solved if we are not hasty

Oh Anne...was that a compliment???  []
 
Callie was on last night and suggested the Holistic, the OP posted she did look for a holistic vet but it is some distance away from her.

When you have been trying to deal with a sick dog, or an ill erson for that matter...for a period of time, and try many remedies without avail, it can be very upsetting.  I
 
Unfortunately, when you recieve the map and it shows twenty different directions you just may want to give up.  You still don't really know what is wrong with the creature, and it tears you up that you aren't making him/her feel better.
 
Sometimes the hardest thing is to start from square one.  But in doing so, you can get some perspective.
 
Euthenasia is not horrible when you know that you have been able to do what you could for the beloved animal.  When there is suffering that is beyond what you can take care of / alleviate, and the situation is only worsening ...There comes a time when you may have to make that decision.  It is not something  someone wants to think about let alone do.  But we should be able to talk about it.
 
I think that Dog lover needs to get concrete answers from a vet, then get professional results.  Then she maybe in a whole better situation.  Certainly, knowing more  facts could help her in her situation
 
 

I just wanted to post and say that this must be very hard for you... Im so sorry you are going through this, and sorry for Snowball. We all place our dogs at different levels in our lives. I have to admit that I am closer to Anne in my belief that I would do just about anything for my dogs provided I could keep us sheltered and eating, and that my dogs have the same value as the humans in my life, but I certainly know others that would not do the same. I have to say that I think it is ok, you need to know where your personal limit is, and I will not judge you, only try to help. There are so many dogs out there suffering, tied to trees, and in shelters that if you do your personal best for yours I thank you. I can tell from your posts that you do care quite a lot about Snowball and that it hurts to see him suffer.

I love this board and I see that you've gotten a ton of good suggestions. Amstaffy (Jaime)'s suggestion on foods were right on, I personally know two dogs whose owners switched them to the Natural Balance Duck and Potato and all food issues cleared up, they were also chewing their feet (one of these dogs is my vet's pet!!!) Also, when it comes ot the holistic vet, it may be worth the hour drive... I know that is tough for anyone but a visit or two and a few good phone consults may get you answers. The allergy testing was another great suggestion and if this new vet suggests it I hope you consider it. Look into the fungus as well... I'm glad you are getting blood tests and a second opinion....sometimes we have to go to different doctors to find one that can help. This really could be a simple thing to solve even though it surely doesn't seem so now....
I was also wondering... could the prozac be causing some of the "depression" you see? You described a sad dog, could some of that be the side effects?

I know what it's like to struggle with finances and sick animals... I have an asthmatic cat that can't be near anything scented, dusty, etc and it's a constant struggle. I also have a a puppy that has had thousands of dollars of vet care in the past year and I'm a grad student. It's hard, i know. Please keep posting and letting us know how your pup is doing.

I have a 3 year old maltese/poodle (nuetered) who has been chewing his paws a lot and my vet recomended that I give him Benadryl which I still have not so far.   I  switched his dog food to Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance -
Potato & Duck Formula, Sweet Potato & Fish Formula under the advise of the owner of the store where I purchase his dog food.  I have not seen any change in his behaviour even after months of changing his diet.  infact his is chewing his paws a lot more now and I can hear him going at it several times in the middle of the night.  He sleeps with us and his constant licking is aggravating my husband because his licking wets the bedsheets.  He has started licking our comforter as well.  I live in Toronto, Canada.  Any advice would be appreciated. 

I don't have anywhere near the experience that most of these posters do, but I wanted to add something.  Sometimes the largest problems can be solved with the smallest of changes.  Yes, even large health problems, as this has happened with my human family.  What I'm referring to is diet.  Your pup may have some extreme sensitivities to the foods that are being fed.  Chicken is NOT a hypoallergenic food.  Please start an elimination diet, as soon as you find the results of the blood tests.
 
Good luck.  Please persevere for the sake of your dog.  None of us likes to know that out there somewhere is a dog suffering.  We feel a bit helpless, and I'm sure what we want is to send out some of our strength and positive energy. 

When you have been trying to deal with a sick dog, or an ill person for that matter...for a period of time, and try many remedies without avail, it can be very upsetting.

 
I agree 100% with this statement.  It's one thing to have your vet say "okay, so your dog has *##&# disease and this is what we need to do to treat it".  I think most people can accept that.  Spending large amounts of time and money and still seeing your dog miserable, can be quite different.  As for ripping up carpet, let me just say based on my experience, sure, you can give that a try, but don't be surprised or dismayed, when that still doesn't solve the problem.  Again, it's not like in situations of this type, you have concrete answers.  As someone who's gone around in circles trying to get answers to the same type of skin problems, I know how frustrating it can be.  Here's what I learned:
 
- if you think it might be food related, do a true elimination diet.  Use only one protien & one carb that you know your dog hasn't had before.  It's not as hard as you might think and it will finally give you an answer.  You'll need to do this for about 8 weeks, but it goes by fast, and with a small dog would be much easier than it was with my 75 lb dog.
 
- Add fatty acid supplements.  I've used Derm Caps, but there are others.  It's believed they help in conjunction with an antihistamine.
 
- Give benadryl a fair trial, but if it doesn't work, move on to a different antihistamine
 
- Get a culture done on the feet and any other parts of the body that have sores or redness.  It's not that expensive and will tell you what you're dealing with and which antibiotic will work on it.  Even if it's an allergy problem, it's very likely become a yeast infection on the feet. 
 
- Try this with the feet.  Make some strong black tea (a bit stronger than you'd drink it).  Saturate the feet with that solution a few times a day.  Be sure to dry the feet after though.  Dampness is the enemy for dogs with yeasty feet.
 
- Get a thyroid test done, and go for the full panel.  It costs about $100, but is well worth it.
 
- If none of this helps, or you're ready to give up, go for the allergy testing.  It's about $250, but the antigen serum isn't horribly expensive.  If nothing else, you'll know what you're dealing with and there might be some allergens you can remove from the environment.
 
Good luck - I honestly do know how rough this can be. 
 

to Cintamasak
 
[]
 
You need to start a thread of your own so you can get input.  I would start with a thorough vet visit.  Health history, and examination with bloodwork at the doctors office.    There should be less guess work and more facts from the professional vet I believe.

I have not seen any change in his behaviour even after months of changing his diet. infact his is chewing his paws a lot more now and I can hear him going at it several times in the middle of the night. He sleeps with us and his constant licking is aggravating my husband because his licking wets the bedsheets.

 
If your dog has developed a yeast infection on the feet, changing his food won't help that. You'll need some antibiotics and if he's chewing that much, I'd bet my next paycheck, he's got a yeast (or bacterial) infection.   If you can get that cleared up, you might find the food is really able to make a difference.

Regarding the elimination diet, should that be started immediately or do I have to add the new food in gradually? 
 
Also, do the Natural Balance formulas qualify as a "one protein and one carb source diet"?

Regarding the possibility of fungus, the vet has scraped Snowball's paws twice in the past year.  Nothing showed up.

Regarding the possibility of fungus, the vet has scraped Snowball's paws twice in the past year. Nothing showed up.

Most times the scrapings will only show if there are mites causing the problems. Sometimes allergies will elivate into bacterial infections and you would need to address that as well. Chephalexin is a good start with that and can be found as an over the counter drug labeled for fish, your dogs size would get 250mg 2 x's a day
 
As far as diet, if Snowball handles food changes without digestive problems then I would move faster on changing his diet. I haven't looked deeply into the protien/carbs but I'll see what I can find out for you

When you look at the feet, do they look wet and gooey between the toes?  If so, I still say it's probably a yeast infection.  Easily cleared up with something like Keflex or Simplicef though.  If not, try the tea solution.  It helped immensely with my lab.  The tannins in the tea seem to keep the toes dried out and calm down the itching.
 
As for the elimination diet, I was so frustrated, I just went straight to it and didn't have any problem.  I use Natural Balance Duck & Potato, but was still having problems.  It's not limited enough in ingredients to be a true elimination diet.  For that you honestly need one protein and one carb and absolutely nothing else.  No treats of any kind unless you make them with the one protein & one carb only, which I managed to do successfully.  I used pork & buckwheat.  You might want to use something different though.  Buckwheats a safe carb since it's not likely Snowball's had it before.  For the protein, you might want to consider something like venison, rabbit, fish...anything you're pretty sure hasn't been in the diet before.  I'd cook the pork & buckwheat on the weekend in large batches and freeze enough for the week. 
 
p.s.  I was also told not to give the fatty acid supplements during this period.