Dog Community

Bubblegum

dyan

Posted : 8/25/2006 9:36:15 PM

So I was at work yesterday reading about aggressive dogs.IT was in categories...such as dominant aggression, fear aggresive, possessive etc. complete with what the dog looks like and how he acts,,holds his tail, ears, head etc etc. Even submissive dogs.So,,,,,,,,,,,,everything I read was Bubblegum. My office manager was kind of laughing because every time I got to another category I said "oh, this is Bubby too!" Not funny...all of them were. I think I was really baffled when I got to the submissive part.So I have been saying for a long time, that she seems to be afraid of mostly men. She is getting better and better,,,but if she is going to be friendly and walk up to someone that she doesn't know,,its most likely going to be female. She is leery of most people. I keep taking her out among people and she is getting friendlier and friendlier. Okay, so she nose butts me all the time. Especially when I sit down by the computer or even putting on my shoes...she walks up to be and puts her nose by mine and bangs me. Does it a lot. I have started a thread about this before. Her breeder told me she used to put her in another room for "time out" for doing nose butts.She is kind of protective I guess this is what it is, of mostly me I think. Sometimes when I am talking to anyone,,she gets right up on her hind legs and gets between me and who I am talking to.Then there is the submissive role...where she is almost always laying on her back, legs spread open and just lays there. I thought it was to get her belly rubbed (which she loves) BUT after reading this is kind of an aggression,,,,I thought,,,oh man......................... AND she always did hide her head in your arm,,or under your arm or somehow IN YOU. And now she pees a lot of times when I come home. I thought once it was because I yelled at her for jumping up...or ignored her and then talked to her....but last night I went to a concert...came home and in the front door...she was upstairs sleeping and when she heard me, she ran down barking. When she saw it was me she sat down, buried her head and me and pee'd. This was at about 11, DH took her out at 8:30...so she did NOT have to go. So,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,do I take my dog to the nearest mental hospital for dogs? Or do I go there myself because I can't figure her out?

willowchow

Posted : 8/26/2006 3:31:55 PM

I don't know Dyan. . .submissive peeing in older dogs. . .but maybe she is just slightly incontinent, as in when she's excited she can't hold it. How old is she now, I forget, this mind is going. . .

I think we could probably get a group rate at the dog mental hospital. Willow just bit her tail again!

I also meant to tell you I saw a Dane at the store today! He was AWESOME! HUGE!! He was almost to my chest standing there.

dyan

Posted : 8/26/2006 3:50:55 PM

I think we could probably get a group rate at the dog mental hospital. Willow just bit her tail again!
Hahha,,,,,, it could be a dog owners ward!!!

Ugh,,,so there is no such thing as submissive peeing in older dogs?????     She did it once or twice when our voice was being loud,,and I figured she thought she was getting yelled at.
When she did it last time after the concert...she came down barking at me,,got to the bottom of the steps and realized it was me,,,and sat down while I just put my head by her and kissed her....and talked with her...when she got up,,,SURE ENOUGH,,,,pee!   Not a lot because she had just been out.
One thing I know,,,, I came home from work today and ignored her....BACK TO THAT AGAIN!!!

Oh Lori,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Willow bit her tail AGAIN???   Did she re injure it?

willowchow

Posted : 8/26/2006 3:56:58 PM

I don't know if they submissive urinate at an older age. I always thought it was a younger dog issue but I don't think it would be entirely impossible. Do you think it could be incontinence though. . .I wonder if she's not starting with it and all the excitement just makes it happen.

Yup, she bit her tail again. My brain has been going 24/7 thinking about putting her on the medication or taking her to a holistic vet for a 2nd opinion. I never realized just how nervous/anxious she is. I see it now though that I'm looking for it. And, it's not just when she hears someone coming or going. She did make herself bleed but luckily she just caught it and it wasn't a big deal. And, it was on a different part as the other bite. The poor tail, I've got to take a picture.

dyan

Posted : 8/26/2006 4:14:11 PM

Well I can tell you one thing Lori,,,, Bubby is very nervous and anxious...I can see that. She doesn't go after her tail like Willow,,,but she DOES chase it a lot when she is excited,,, I can see her biting it and too hard also.
In many ways,,, Willow reminds me of Bubblegum!

Janey

Posted : 8/26/2006 4:54:43 PM

Coincidentally enough, my aggressive pooch, Gandolf, also has a tail chasing/biting thing he does. One trainer told me not to encourage it because she thought it was a compulsive behavior that shepherds tend to do, but maybe it has more to do with pent-up aggression/anxiousness??!!?? He's never injured himself, however, but if I see him start to go after it, I'll tell him to stop.

cakana

Posted : 8/26/2006 7:28:50 PM

I think we could probably get a group rate at the dog mental hospital. Willow just bit her tail again!
Hahha,,,,,, it could be a dog owners ward!!!

Oh my gosh, please reserve a room for me [

]. I tend to agree with Lori on this, Dyan. I think it might be something else going on (beginning incontinence?) and not submissive peeing. I have zero knowledge in this area though, so don't take what I say too serious. I just wanted to offer my comfort and support, since I know what it's like to deal with "special" dogs. About a week ago I was outside with both Sassy and Buffy and for some reason Sassy got fiesty and chased and cornered Buffy and had that stiff posture and stare down look. I thought "oh my gosh, they're going to get into a fight", but I managed to use the calmest voice I had and just said "come on Sassy" and she followed me away. In the past I can tell you with 100% certainty, there would've been a fight. I separated them and came in the house and felt like my blood pressure was off the charts. They haven't gotten into a fight since last Sept, so I keep telling myself not to overreact, but times like that freak me out [X(].

dyan

Posted : 8/26/2006 7:47:13 PM

I think it might be something else going on (beginning incontinence?) and not submissive peeing.

Well,,,,the reason I mentioned it was because (on what I was reading at work)

eeing like this AND laying on their backs with their legs spread open etc. were in the same catagory,,,and bubby does this all the time.

dyan

Posted : 8/27/2006 12:32:39 PM

You guys might be right...I looked up submissive peeing on the internet last night, didn't read a thing about an adult dog doing this. BUT I know she has no problem with not being able to hold it...she can go the whole day (and does often) without asking to go out,,,and yet....when she does this when I come home, it could be right after she went out to pee.

ron2

Posted : 8/27/2006 1:38:29 PM

There still might be a medical issue at hand. Or another factor in the environment.

Shadow usually never had a problem going into Petco with me. The last few weekends he would start to balk at it. Today, he didn't want to go in. Then, one of my three brain cells fired up, which always scares the crap out of me. I would see how far we could go and him still be comfortable. About 30 feet from the doors. He would sit and even down. We walked halfway back to the vehicle twice and I would command "about" which means to turn 180 degrees. We would head back and get within about 30 feet of the door. Then he would sit, sometimes trembling. Anyway, a brain cell in my cavernous skull accidently slipped into gear. We left and I resolved that we would try this again at another time. Then I began to wonder. Is there a smell there or sound that is putting him off? Have they put up a a scent that wards off animals? A new security system that puts out a sound that he doesn't like? Or, most likely, have they recently sprayed for bugs, as there will be an onslaught of crickets as the weather gets cooler? Is that insecticide scaring him? Is it better for him to steer clear of insecticides? Yes, it is. Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it. If I "forced" him to conquer his fear of the smell, might he get into something that smells like that later on, thinking it's okay, now? I may not be a dog whisperer, but I'm trying to become a dog listener. Dogs are so sensitive to smell and some sounds that they can detect things beyond our abilities.

Usually, going to Petco is a chance to socialize him. It's one of the few places I can take him into. We'll go there even if I'm not buying anything, just to have him in the public and help increase his confidence.

jones

Posted : 8/27/2006 5:40:47 PM

Either I am misunderstanding you, Dyan, or you are misunderstanding the types of aggression you read about. Are you saying that laying on her back with legs spread is a type of aggression? I'm a little tired so maybe I just misread that.

Anyway, if you're going through the book saying Bubblegum has ALL types of aggression, well... that's really not very likely. I don't know if you've ever read through a DSM but you'd probably think you had every mental illness... or to use a more prosaic example, you can read any horoscope in a newspaper column and think it's right on. These descriptions are often just general enough that you can "fit" yourself/dog into them even if they're not accurate diagnoses.

As for the submissive behavior, laying on her back with her legs spread is not necessarily a submissive behavior. It is in some circumstances, like if someone is approaching her to pet or scold her and she rolls into that position it's probably a submissive display. But if no one's interacting with her and she's just laying that way to be comfortable, or if that's her way of requesting a belly rub - then it's not a submissive display. I also don't think submissive urination is a young-dog-only behavior... there's a kind of submissive urination that has to do with an insecure dog making over-the-top submissive displays and that's not a puppy behavior - and then there's the fairly common puppy dog who gets too excited by people and hasn't learned to be calm yet - and they grow out of that.

dyan

Posted : 8/27/2006 6:03:11 PM

I'm actually not saying that Bubblegum HAS all the types of aggression,,,,but I'm saying that in the descriptions of each aggression,,,,she has many of the traits...I guess you might say.   THEN,,,when it came to the submissive section....she fell right into that also.
She protects..
She is dominate.
She is fearful!
Ummmmmmmmmmmm is there anymore??    Seriously...she tends to protect the house,,,and me.
She tries to push me around,,,butts me with her nose all the time...and yet she buries her head under my arm,,or in my lap....
She seems to be afraid of some thing,,,some people,,,mostly guys. The ones she is afraid of, she barks terribly at! My son, for one. AND then when she can't "bark him away" she tries to sit on his lap or even get up on her back legs to get her head close to his...as she does with me.
She seems to be sending out mixed signals.   HHHmm!
Oh,,and the laying o her back thing,,,,I need to go back and look again because the chapter was about aggression,,,and that is what had the laying on their back,,,being submissive.   She didnt do that until about 6 months ago...and I always thought it was for attention,,,WHICH she does get. But then I read in a bood that dominate dogs will do that.    And then there is this paragraph that I found:
Defensive-aggressive dogs are much more ambivalent in their behavior. They display submissive body language (ears back, often flat against the head; avoidance of direct eye contact; lowering of the head and body; tucking tail between the legs; submissive urination) and they lick hands and roll over to expose their bellies. They resist handling, hate to have their feet touched, don't like to be groomed, and often shy away from human hands. These are the fear-biters; they may snap if cornered and will often bite at people who turn and walk away.

willowchow

Posted : 8/27/2006 7:08:40 PM

Dyan--I sent you an e-mail thru the board.

Anita Anita

Posted : 8/27/2006 9:20:03 PM

butting with his nose is aggression? My dog does this all the time and I thought it was just to get my attention (to go out, or to be petted). I didn't think this was a sign of aggression. Are you sure it is?

dyan

Posted : 8/27/2006 9:37:15 PM

butting with his nose is aggression?

I sure would think that is called dominating though,,,wouldnt you? Dont know if its called aggression or not... I don't know what kind of dog you have,,but when Bubblegum comes up to me and nose butts my nose,,,,,she HURTS. And since her face is almost as big as mine when she puts her face in mine,,,its a challenge. I call her my "bossy bitch!" She is!