Rottie hates new hairstyle and monthly cycle

    • Bronze

    Rottie hates new hairstyle and monthly cycle

    My in-laws' 5 year old neutered male Rottweiler, SoCo, displays sudden aggression toward me if my long hair is down. If he is free roaming the house and I enter the room he will growl and jump up at me. If confined, he will sound off as if I were a total stranger invading the house; barking, snarling, full attack mode. As long as I make sure to keep it pulled back we are best buds playing on the floor; kisses and close face to face contact. Suddenly, he has started showing the same aggressive behavior (even with my hair pulled back) when I am menstruating. Last night he lunged at me, reared up on hind legs and muzzle punched me in the face while growling. We crated him immediately. He lowered his head, ears back and gave me the cautious raised eyes look when I approached the crate. If I turned my back on him or moved away from the crate he would jump and bark/growl. Now, the hair thing, fine I get it. It’s no different than "men in hats" and it is second nature for me to now pull my hair back when I am home. But I really can't avoid the monthly female thing. What is making him do this and why now? It is no different than the other 10 months I've been living with him? I am frequently at home alone with this 140lb beast of a dog which I am seeing as increasingly unpredictable. I try to pay attention to his subtle cues but there are situations which force me to have contact with the dog even if he is in a mood. He is frequently confined to the kitchen which limits my contact but I can’t avoid the room entirely. Additionally there is a female Rottie, SoCo’s spayed mother Malibu in the home. She has never shown any negative emotion toward me.  Thus far her being at ease with me seems to show him I am a friend. My concern is in knowing how they will team up (pack instinct) on strangers. If in the worst case scenario, Malibu follows SoCo’s lead and they both turn on me I am done for. Malibu weighs as much as me maybe more and SoCo has 25lbs on me.
    • Gold Top Dog

    I think you should seek the help of a good trainer, someone experienced with this breed (or at least German working breeds).  Honestly the thing with the hair and the cycle doesn't mean much to me, it really doesn't matter why we think he's going after you, the important thing is that it cannot be tolerated.  If you live in the home you should not have a 140lb dog coming at you for ANY reason.  Whoever is the dog's primary owner/handler needs to step in and get this situation under control before you get hurt.  Why he's doing it now...again it's anyone's guess.  These large breed working dogs are slow to mature both physically and even more so mentally/temperamentally.  It's possible this is just how the mature SoCo is.  Most owners of dogs like Rottweilers, German Shepherds, etc notice changes in their dog (especially how they react to perceived threat and what they will tolerate) as the dog matures.

    • Bronze

    I agree the most important thing is that the behavior not be tolerated. I was hoping by better understanding why this could be happening I could find a solution.  I try to approach dog training/behavior with a "put yourself in their shoes" type of thinking.

    To update you on the situation, it happened again this evening. Since reading the part of you post "especially how they react to perceived threat and what they will tolerate", I began carefully analyzing both of these recent incidences. While I am not 100% sure of the first one, I am positive tonights "uprising" occurred when I raised my arm to shoulder height and handed something to my hubby. Perhaps I have been looking at this as aggression when it is in reality defensive. It could be that he saw that motion as a threat. 

    Nevertheless a huge problem remains. It is an unfortunate truth I have known since I came into this family. The dogs have no primary owner/handler. They have not been properly socialized or trained. Prior to all of us moving in together the dogs were kept in a 10x10ft pen outside or confined to a one bedroom apartment. I jokingly describe SoCo as 140lbs of "don't tell me what to do", the sad thing is he knows no one in this house can stop him. My mother in-law is probably the closest thing to primary owner however her answer to everything is bribe him with a bone. She is smaller than me and most certainly doesnt have the strength to control him. My father in-law is a stubborn, difficult, argumentative man with a similar "dont tell me" attitude. He believes you control a dog through fear and NOTHING will change his mind on that. His first instinct the minute the dog misbehaves is a swift backhand to the head/snout. Of course this method is only making matters worse. I truly feel this plays into SoCo's reaction to my raised arm. My solution would be first and foremost, Dad MUST stop using physical punishment especially for minor infractions such as "bothering" him while he lounges on the couch. I've got a better chance of winning the lottery than I do convincing him of that, So...... Mom, hubby and myself can all be hyper vigilant in our movements around the dog but what else if anything? Is this a hopeless endeavor? I hate to think a dog is "ruined" or untrainable but can it be done if we are not all on the same page in terms of plan of action?

    I appreciate any advice. I know this is not an ideal situation and one I have very little control over, making it difficult to manage.

    • Gold Top Dog

    bridgesburning
    I appreciate any advice.

    My advice is probably not going to happen but the family needs to consult a qualified behaviorist. Someone who will come to the house and watch the dogs and the interaction with the family.  Maybe someone else has some advice but if the owners of the dogs aren't willing to acknowledge that what they're doing isn't working, it's going to be hard to make any headway in changing the dog's behavior.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Honestly, if the owners aren't willing to step up I don't see how this can end well, for you or the dog.  Again I don't really care why the dog might behave this way.  If you are part of the family then there's no reason why you cannot wear your hair as you please, or raise your arm.  I give you props for even being willing to look at it from the dog's perspective and putting up with this so far.  The reality is no one may ever know why the dog does it but he does, and it's dangerous.  This is a working breed with a long history of displaying power and defense drive.  The dog needs to be managed by the owners so that you aren't forced to tip-toe around in your own home.  Today it is hair, what is next, tomorrow you glance sideways at the dog and now that's perceived as a direct threat?  I'm not all that familiar with Rottweilers specifically, only what I know of them being in various working dog clubs and watching them train.  A 140lb Rott with such a low threshold for aggression is a huge liability even in the hands of a diligent and experienced owner.  JMHO

    • Gold Top Dog

    I had to edit my post above to make a little better sense.  I agree, Liesje, whatever is triggering this dog's aggressive behavior is secondary to the fact that this is a large powerful dog who is being allowed to show aggression to people it knows.  A qualified professional would be able to give some insight into the why of this dog's behavior but from what has been described it's unlikely the owners will see the need until it's too late. 

    • Bronze

    I thank you again for your collective input.

    After speaking with hubby about this I have resigned myself to pretty much the same conclusion you have offered. It seems there is really nothing I can do. You are right, the help of a professional will not be an option. Even if we convinced Mom of the necessity, Dad acknowledges the dog is dangerous and therefore will not allow contact with a stranger.

    This leaves me with one final question. If/when this dog finally loses his mind completely, is there something I can do to ward off the attack or reduce the injury? I usually freeze when he jumps at me in that way. Suppose he does bite down on me, what do I do if I'm alone? Fight back? Go limp?  I hate the thought but I carry a stun gun in my purse for self defense and am considering keeping it on my belt instead. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    Sad I'm sorry you have to even think about this. 

    I don't like to think ill of people I've never met and am not "talking" to directly but this is really disturbing, what were your relatives thinking getting a breed like this but refusing proper training and management?  This is probably something that could have been completely avoided but many working breed dogs need a LOT of training, socialization, and clear boundaries from day one or they learn they can treat everyone like a doormat as you are now experiencing.  Not a "wash and wear" kind of dog.  You have to be a strong leader from the beginning (and that doesn't mean just physical punishment, I agree with you there).

    As much as I love German Shepherds and enjoy training with powerful dogs (I do protection work, among other things) I also have a fear of many dogs which is why I could never be a dog trainer or behaviorist so in your shoes, you bet I would carry the stun gun.

    Can you share what area you live in?  Maybe we know of something that the owners might be willing to try...

    • Gold Top Dog

    I wouldn't put myself in that situation.  I'd ask them to put the dog in a separate room or in a crate or kennel before I arrived.  There's little chance you could defend yourself from an all out attack. 

    Avoid eye contact and keep your body sideways to the dog if you are in the same room but if he's truly unstable I'd just avoid any contact.   Your FIL may assume that you won't do anything about it if the dog causes you serious harm, but if you require medical treatment, it will be reported by the ER, at least in many states; that's the law.   It will get pretty messy at that point.

    • Bronze

    JackieG
    I'd ask them to put the dog in a separate room or in a crate or kennel before I arrived.

    I live there. The dog can't be in the crate 24/7. He can be seperated by gate in the kitchen but I refuse to be told I can't have coffee in the morning by the dog. I'm cautious but not fearful.

    • Bronze

    JackieG
    I'd ask them to put the dog in a separate room or in a crate or kennel before I arrived.

    I live there. The dog can't be in the crate 24/7. He can be seperated by gate in the kitchen but I refuse to be told I can't have coffee in the morning by the dog. I'm cautious but not fearful.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Good luck.

    • Gold Top Dog
    I will be totally frank and this will not at all sit well with 99% of this forum. If this were me, I would be calling ac and have them take the dog and put it down. This will be the end result no matter what anyway from the sounds of it. The poor dog doesn't have a chance and never did unfortunately. No socialization + physical punishment turns dogs into biters through no fault of their own. I had a dog like this when I was growing up living with my parents. The dog was kept outside, I was the only positive interaction he had. He bit many people before we put him down. This all could have been avoided, of course, and we totally failed that dog, but I was a kid and had no say in the raising of the household pet.

    The difference here is my dog was 50 lbs. Yours is 140. I think you are right to be afraid. If you can't arrange for the dog to be gone, buy youself some Halt spray and keep it on you all the time. It is what postal carriers wear and many cyclists to stop dogs in their tracks. You can buy it online or at bike shops.
    • Gold Top Dog

    Julie it sits pretty well with me.  Even though my preferred breed is supposed to be aggressive and has developed a bad rap because of bad breeding of poor nerves, I have very little if not zero tolerance for unwarranted aggression towards any members of the household.  And yes, the sheer size and power of this dog does make it different than dealing with a nippy Chihuahua or something like that.  I won't say that the lack of socialization caused this, since we'll never know.  The dog just may have a bad combination of genetics.  Really, in working breeds a genetically sound dog has a stable temperament whether you socialize it or not.  I've seen it time and again, people buy a "green" dog over a year old that has sat in an outdoor kennel its entire life and within a week the dog is training, walking through the city, playing with other dogs, and interacting with people and then I see people who get a puppy at 8 weeks and take it to a new place everyday for a year and still the puppy is nervy and fear aggressive.  I know of a Rottweiler that was trained by one of the best in the country and one day the guy slipped and fell while letting the dog out and it turned on him.  But this is all besides the point because now, the dog is what he is.  The owners can either deal with it.....or....I don't know but I don't see a good ending.  Even management at this point has some disadvantages for the OP since she lives in the house and cannot enter the room with the dog.

    • Gold Top Dog
    I don't know what to really think about this particular dog.  Not having seen it, and only knowing the little she's shared, it's not possible for me to have any real idea of what's really happening and how dangerous the dog is but I wouldn't live with a dog that I thought would go "crazy" and attack me.  It's not a matter of being cautious if the dog is really unpredictable.  An unstable aggressive dog, no matter the reason for the problem, is dangerous.