Any advice on my two dogs not getting along would be appreciated.

I'm sure you will get lots of good advice here.  The first thing I think of is NILIF.  Nobuddy gets anything until they do something for you.  Practice it ALL the time.  This will help them learn that you hold the key to EVERYTHING they want and need.

Some may disagree with me here, but Sprocket (both really) should be corrected when he gets snarky with the newbie.  He needs to learn that "is not ok."  Alternatively, when you see them getting along, that should be rewarded and praised.

Do they understand "no" or "leave it?"  Do you practice obedience commands with them?  This will help you bond with each one and another way for them to learn that YOU hold all the cards, not them.

You can get books to learn how to recognize body language and behaviors; to be able to stop problems before they happen.

Good luck! 

I do try to correct the snarky behavior, any advice on the best way? Usually I say "hey" and hold his muzzle until he stops growling (vet recommended). The older dog knows sit, stay, and leave it pretty well and obeys MOST of the time. The new dog we are working with (only have had him 3 weeks) when he really wants something he is stubborn and completely ignores us (this is a problem throughout all of our training so far) he doesn't understand "go" he wil only sit and lay down in these situations if we stare him in the eye, grab his head and firmly tell him the command, usually up to 3 times, and he then ignores the stay command.

No offense to your vet...but they usually know nothing about training, behaviors or nutrition...IMHO.

It sounds like you have a lot going on that demands consistent, constant attention on your part for each dog.  You can definately work through this.  Each dog needs daily training sessions. 

The newbie is likely not feeling acclimated yet for one thing.  If he is ignoring you or laying down...he doesn't understand what you want him to do.  Also, you are likely only going to accomplish scaring him if you are staring him down.

Get some books.  I'm hoping some of the trainers here on the board chime in.

We have been doing s training sessions (with each dog so neither feels left out,I take one and my boyfriend takes the other and then we switch) and work on sit, stay, leave it, lay down, and off . They follow all of the commands when we are doing during the training ( we alternate treats and switch to only affection at times) it's out of the structured situation thy he ignores us, and only when he is misbehaving.

Neither of mine would be on the couch or bed, with these kind of shenanigans. They would work for every single morsel of food that crossed their furry mouths. Google NILIF.

I will look that up. I guess I may need to be more strict, Sprocket is just my baby, and I want him to be able to do everything he was able to do before we got the new dog. I'm willing to make changes though, if that is what it takes. I just keep reading such mixed advice on the internet, thats why I wanted to post my specific issues. For the past 24 hours they have been best friends again, sleeping nearly on top of each other, sharing affection without the slightest bit of aggression...it is just hard to predict when and what the next set off will be.

Every incident you describes sounded to me like resource guarding. You are a resouce, the nylabone, the bed, etc. Do the nothing in life is free stuff constantly. Don't favor one dog over the other, it is not up to you to decide rank order. Besides, rank order in dogs is situational and fluid. It changes based on what is going on, where you are and so forth. It is not always black and white like most people want to believe. From now on, if one of them starts to guard you stand up without saying anything and walk away. To another room and shut the door on the would send a big message. You guard me, i leave. No more letting them on the bed or couch, etc. Work on their obedience and make them do it randomly throughoug the day.

Jewlieee

Every incident you describes sounded to me like resource guarding. You are a resouce, the nylabone, the bed, etc. Do the nothing in life is free stuff constantly. Don't favor one dog over the other, it is not up to you to decide rank order. Besides, rank order in dogs is situational and fluid. It changes based on what is going on, where you are and so forth. It is not always black and white like most people want to believe. From now on, if one of them starts to guard you stand up without saying anything and walk away. To another room and shut the door on the would send a big message. You guard me, i leave. No more letting them on the bed or couch, etc. Work on their obedience and make them do it randomly throughoug the day.

Yes, this is what I advise too.  Be cautious about using too much correction because you don't want them to associate the sight of the other dog with something bad (correction).  Try some counter conditioning.  Read Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson ASAP.  Every fight increases the chance of another fight and often fights start to escalate in intensity. 

 This may not be a situation you can deal with alone.  The cost of a behaviorist will be less than a big medical bill for either one of the dogs or you.  If you don't think you can deal with it, consider rehoming one of the dogs.  It's hard to give advice about behavior issues without seeing the dogs interact. This is why a behaviorist can be so helpful.  I caution you to be wary of advice that advises harsh correction methods as that generally makes the problem worse and you are more likely to be bitten again. 

Thank you all for your input. I'm looking into the NILIF. My boyfriend and I have decided if there is one more scuffle, even if it is small we will try that. They have been so well behaved after the most recent one, including sleeping nearly on top of one another and sharing toys even this last day we are hoping that maybe that helped them figure out some dominance stuff, even though it scared the crap out of me. I'll be sure to post updates! I really appreciate everyones input!

In addition to the advice given...

 Are both boys neutered? How old is the younger dog?

Since you don't want to restrict Sprocket's activities (I do understand that), can you crate train the younger dog? This way they can each have their downtime away from each other.

I'd forget the whole "holding the muzzle until he stops growling". I think my girls would see that as a "oh it's on!" cue. Grabbing his head and staring him in the eye isn't going to do anything to teach him to listen to you.

When the girls are being snarky, when Jackson was being a pushy puppy, I did ALOT of redirecting. (another good reason to crate train, redirecting takes a ton of vigilance!!) When they were good with each other, yay! let's get a treat! When they were snarky with each other, I would get up, speak normally "Hey" then call them to me, ask for a sit and give a treat. It diffuses the situation. 

Good luck and keep us updated!

 

 

blur411

I'm looking into the NILIF. My boyfriend and I have decided if there is one more scuffle, even if it is small we will try that.

.To be honest?  It doesn't take a "scuffle" to do NILIF -- it is the WAY OF LIFE at our house.  And I really have no behavior problems -- and you humans have to be really strict with yourselves as well -- if one of you is giving a command or in control of a situation, let that person finish it.  It's hard not to counter-mand each other.

Mostly tho I really want to encourage you to completely ditch your own human feelings of "fairness" -- just because Dog A has been here longer doesn't mean that dog should **always** have access to couch, bed, etc.  That is always a priviledge -- ANY dog in my house who begins to ignore me or be a problem - they are busted to the floor (as in "busted" = denial of priviledge, not physical punishment)

You can't look at it as Well X has been here longer than Y so he has more perks.

 Nope -- everyone has to earn everything -- we humans do that -- if WE don't work WE don't eat.  Our "reward" system is just different.  I mean if one of you gets a new "toy" (game, Kindle, whatever) and starts treating the other person like crap -- well guess what -- it's gonna cause problems.

You changed things when you brought in another dog -- and you *knew* the terrier was capable of being snarky.  So you honestly have to take responsibility and arrange **everything** to produce the best possible reactions in both. 

If the "resource" (bed, nylabone, you, whatever) is a problem -- then re-arrange things so the problem can't happen.  This may break the nose of the humans -- because we tend to like to judge everything by our own rules of "fair".    So honestly, you have to begin to see things more from the dogs' standpoints --

Dogs are 100% situational.  Right here, right now we're best buddies and we like the closeness of laying together -- but if that 'resource' shows up -- they're going to revert straight back to what works. 

A dog doesn't lie around and think 'Oh ... it's nice -- we're getting along so much better now -- I won't lose my temper any more'.  They are in the "now".  Right now I'm comfortable.  But if A and B react to some new resource or stimulous "getting along" isn't part of **their** plan.

To hold them to OUR standards and think "Oh they're getting along so well now I can invite A up on the bed".... nope - if YOU change the situation by allowing something new to come in, it's honestly more you than the dogs and you may set yourself way back training-wise.

Does that make any sense?  In other words -- until there is long long LONG and successful training where you diminish a certain negative/not-desired resonse you can't even think of not avoiding problems.  And even so -- with some dogs you may never be able to put them in certain situations and not potentially explode the whole thing all over again. 

Any time you bring another dog into your pack, you potentially change *everything*.  Pleasures you may have had -- having the terrier up next to you on the bed, or whatever ... you may not be able to do those things now.  

 But honestly --you have to think more like a dog (or at least mentally be far more able to put yourself IN their place) to get this to work.  You have to delete words from your own vocabulary like "fair" and "sharing" -- because they just aren't dog concepts.   They may "share" a toy simply because one doesn't *want* it right now, or it's not that attractive.  But that can turn on a dime if certain events/wants are strung together.

I'm not trying to be snarky -- Jackie and Jewilee are absolutely on target with what they suggest.  I guess what I was trying to add was how important it is for us to adjust *our* mental ideas and goals because sometimes we assume they're 'getting along' when it's really just that nothing has been desirable enough and there haven't been events that may have triggered that "short fuse" that sometimes seems to come out of nowhere.  (or maybe you just didn't see them)  So you sort of have to simply permanently change how you do certain things in order to not "set them up" to fail.

3girls

Are both boys neutered? How old is the younger dog?

Yes, the are both fixed. Also, they are both crate trained, and they are in it when we are both gone (rare, usually someone is always home with them) I have one more thing to add. They have been fine for the last three days, today is the first time they are alone with me again. And they just got into another fight. It's ONLY when I'm the only one home. They don't do real fights infront of my boyfriend. I was in the kitchen, and I saw Loogie (larger, new dog) give Sprocket a look and it was on. I'm doing research on the NILIF right now, and we're implementing it starting now. I can't have this happening all the time! I REALLY don't want to re-home Loogie, so we will try this, and then if necessary I will hire a trainer (which I have no idea how to go about finding a good one, or even really know what to expect to pay so I can budget) Thank you all for you help! Edit: I was looking up the NILIF, I think it is something we can do for sure, but I guess I don't see how it will stop the fighting. Also, some people have mentioned here that the couch, and bed shouldn't be allowed until they stop acting like this. I'm not sure how to enforce this, should I not allow them on the furniture until they have gone awhile without fighting? Because honestly, we already only let them up when we have invited them and so forth.

Amber, below is a link that shows quite a few links to different behaviorist trainers.  Each site should have a list of trainers and hopefully you can find one in your area.  If there isn't one close enough to be practical for you, many will do phone/video consultations.  In home is best but I know that's not always possible.  As for cost, it varies so much that it's hard to say with any accuracy. 

 Without more knowledge of dog behavior and the myriad reasons for dog dog aggression you should keep them separated, IMO.  

As I said previously, be cautious about implementing advice you read on the internet and that includes advice you read here. :) The best thing you can do at this point is to prevent any further fighting and educate yourself and consult with a qualifed behaviorist.

http://abrionline.org/organizations.php

Here's a link to find some good dog behavior books.  Some are available as ebooks which means no waiting for snail mail. :)  I recommend any and all of the following.  Some are small booklets that cost less than $10.00   http://www.dogwise.com/Browse/SubCatList.cfm?SubCat=Recommended%20Books%20for%20Pet%20Dog%20Owners This link takes you to books recommended by APDT and are based on proven positive reinforcement methods.

Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson

Mine! by Jean Donaldson

Fight by Jean Donaldson

How to be the leader of the Pack (title is longer but I can't remember the rest of it) by Patricia McConnell

The Other End of the Leash by Patricia McConnell

JackieG

 Without more knowledge of dog behavior and the myriad reasons for dog dog aggression you should keep them separated, IMO.  

As I said previously, be cautious about implementing advice you read on the internet and that includes advice you read here. :) The best thing you can do at this point is to prevent any further fighting and educate yourself and consult with a qualifed behaviorist.

What she says is solid gold! 

It can be really difficult to understand where such a seemingly "harsh" advice comes from.  Keep them SEPARATE??

 Yeah -- **because** every time they fight -- it not only escalates but "learning" takes place.  "I did this last time and it accomplished what I wanted it to" -- those are long words but that's saying, in humans words, pretty much how dogs feel.  I did it, it worked, do it again!

So PREVENTING trouble right now is honestly job #1.  More than just "training" or "achieving peace" - you want to **avoid** trouble until you get what's really going on sorted out.  Then you can move forward. 

It seems unfair.  It seems hard -- particularly in light of the holidays -- and it may seem impossible.  But just keeping them separated will avoid the fight.  No one "bests" anyone -- no one gets hurt (most of all you). 

To answer your question from above -- the whole point of NILIF is to completely control their behavior all the time.  When a dog is in a "sit" he's more easily controlled.  It puts them in the *habit* of always having to acknowledge you.   They make no "independant decisions".  You do.

 AND -- yes, we mean the bed, furniture, "up" on anything" -- those are all No-No's until you get this all rectified.  It's a no for the older dog and the newer one.  NO one sits on furntiure.  They both lost that right the first time somebuddy got snarky.

And in particular -- Jackie means keep them separated ALL the time-- to be honest it would just be better for them not to "meet" until you can level the playing field with expert help.

IF NOTHING MORE it gets across the point in big huge way -- "Fighting is not acceptable and neither of you are gonna have a chance TO fight... PERIOD."

This keeps it from worsening.  And right now -- that's more important than it seems -- and you underscored this with your post of today.  They went a deceptively long time "ok" and then you were **ALONE** and it happened.  It's not gone.  It's not forgotten. 

I don't mean to talk this to death - but it's easy to read something like this and say "Oh, that's pretty extreme -- they get along pretty well MOST of the time and it's the Holidays ...."

and yeah -- that's exaclty when the worst can happen. 

Good luck.