Too Aggressive?

Hi there, and welcome to the forum. 

People will undoubtedely tell you that dog parks are bad news.  Your dogs are reaching maturity now, so its not that surprising that they are behaving this way.  They may even start behaving this way towards each other.  Its normal as they try to assert their role in their "pack."  My Bruder tried asserting himself to elevate himself.  My Heidi didn't allow it.  There were scuffles.  But, Bruder realized his place on the totem pole and the scuffles stopped.  It was temporary

If you must take them to the dog park, you might want to consider taking them separately.

Alternatively, is there somewhere else you can take them to burn off energy.  A fenced in park or similar.  Some place with out other dogs?

Thanks for the advice!

 Recently I just take them when other dogs arent there so they can just run together.  Bella keeps Bear in place, so I'm not too worried about our two getting in a squirmish.  It's just sad because both dogs love to be around other dogs, maybe they would behave differently if they played separately.

they are a bonded, opposite sex pair...doing what dogs do. I would take them separately or not at all. Their play is inappropriate esp if other dogs are giving submission signs and whimpering to no effect.  

I would ramp up obedience training...SEPARATELY and find a way to develop a bond with each dog...SEPARATELY to counteract and overrule the bond they have with each other because there will be times when you need that overrule. Like when they are aggressing or otherwise being inappropriate.

Are both fixed? That can enhance the males aggression or drive to protect the bitch.

They definitely are both fixed and have been for some time.  Of course they behave when they are 1 on 1 with me or my husband.  Unfortunately, they are more likely to not listen to us when they are together and around others.

How can you teach them not to play so rough?  If I can town down their play with one another, then maybe that would transfer to other dogs (if we ever can get to that stage again).

If neither obeys as well when in the presence of the other then both need more training.

None of mine have much in the way of obedience training BUT when I am out there while they all play they all are aware that my voice means they better pay attention. My oldest girl Ellie knows to come sit by me when the big dog gets on her nerves and I tell the big dog to "Git' and she goes to find something else to do. The littlest one is a real rip snorter so typically their play is very robust.

I know my dogs and I know when they are getting too worked up. It's a predictable thing. Defuse it BEFORE you arrive at that point. If a dog is acting a fool...they need a command that means "quit it and lay down" whatever you choose that to be. This should be given to the dog that is pushing buttons. But not if the other dog is also overly stimulated because then they might use the opportunity to get in a cheap shot.

In your case I would work on your male staying by your side off lead or immediately returning to it when called. THAT is something you can use whenever you notice them attempting to tag team another dog. He MUST return to you and stay awhile until he is calm again. If he cannot calm down he should not be brought to a stimulating place like a dog park.

Great idea. I will definitely start working on that.  Sometimes I can get him to respond to me if I tell him I have a treat, but other times he acts like he doesn't even here me.  Do you have any tips on getting their attention?  Obviously rewarding good behavior, but how can I make sure that he at least acknowledges me? Just practice?

Consistency and repetitiveness.

Teach "watch me" aka "look at me."  You can google it.  This teaches them to focus on you. 

I would also google NILIF.  This will teach them that you hold ALL of their resources; and that they need to listen to you before they get what they want.  Its a great way to bond too.

Make sure they have a great recall too.  Teach this with the most yummy treats or the most valued toy. 

All of this will help you to get their attention and distract them from bad behavior.

It taks practice, doesn't happen over night.  But, daily training will help you greatly.

ETA:  is repetitiveness a word?  ROFL 

FWIW, I dont think a dog should be allowed off leash anywhere (even at home) until you *know* that he will come back to you when you tell him/her to COME. I do not use that command unless I have him on a leash because when I yell COME it will be for a darn good reason when I need it to work (car coming, dog fight, etc). When I am at home, I will basically say comehere or comeon. He listens to me though and I trust him to return to me whenever I ask him to. We can be at a dog park where this is tons of distractions and I trust him to come to me or do whatever I want when I tell him to. Your dog should look to you for direction IMO.

I would go back to square one with both of your dogs because if they arent listening to "drop it" or "leave it" when your lab attaches on to the throat of another dog, they arent trained fully. You have to be able to trust your dog and although they can work out their quirks amongst each other at home...I believe your dog shouldnt be trying to dominate over another dog at a dog park, especially when they are acting submissive. I know people here that would ultimately get you kicked out of the park if they felt your dog was being a nuisance.

I had a submissive boxer until he reached the age of maturity. He now will "tell" another dog to leave him alone if they are messing with him and I dont blame him. I had to actually boost that mentality in him because he was letting other dogs take advantage of him and hump him (showing dominance) to him at a dog park. It wasnt until I told Marley to GET HIM (because he was looking to me for direction) until he turned around and snapped at that dog to get off his back. I think you have to have trust in your dog and your dog has to trust in you. If they arent listening to you, it would be back to the backyard on a leash until they did.

The only reason I say this is because you WILL have issues in the future as they get older and ultimately more protective of one another. As others have said, if they listen better to you away from one another and you dont have time or energy to work more in their training, I would take them seperately to the park. If you want more trust and dependability out of your dog in the long run, go back to step 1 in dog training.

Boxermom2Marley

It wasnt until I told Marley to GET HIM (because he was looking to me for direction) until he turned around and snapped at that dog to get off his back.

That's some pretty dangerous advice if you're recommending the OP teach her dog to snap at other dogs at a dog park or anywhere, IMO.  Dog parks being what they are, it's very possible a person might encounter a dog who won't back off when snapped at, and may take the incident to the next level.

Dog parks are notorious places for setting dogs up to have bad experiences.  Most experienced dog trainers and behaviorists recommend avoiding them unless you frequent the park when there are few dogs or only dogs you know personally and owners who are not oblivious to their dog's behavior. 

Nope, I didnt direct the OP to have her dog attack the other dog, apparently her dogs are already doing that (just in a semi playful, semi threatful way). What I was trying to explain was that my dog was submissive and *looks to me* for direction on what to do. I was trying to tell the OP that I think your dog should always be trained to listen to whatever commands you may give and should not be brought into the public if you cannot trust them to listen each and every time.

Ultimately, Jackie, my whole post was stating that I believe your dog should be trusted and listen to commands before brought to any public place. No, most dog parks in general are not someplace that people should bring their dogs, but the parks I go to, most everybody is responsible for their dogs. We even have "dog park police" that will boot somebody out if their dogs were being dominant or showing aggression. There are dog parks I will NOT take Marley because I deem them unsafe, but the ones I do frequent have plenty of friendly, playful dogs and owners looking to burn some energy out of their dogs. I will not bring my dog to a place where I felt he was threatened.

Boxermom2Marley

What I was trying to explain was that my dog was submissive and *looks to me* for direction on what to do.

What I was saying is that giving your dog permission to attack another dog is dangerous.  If a dog is looking to me for direction on how to handle another dog, I'd never be telling my dog it's ok to show aggression.  I'd be "telling" my dog that I'll take it out of the situation and then I would leave.  

Yep, consistency and repetition are absolutely key.  And your dogs *should* come each and every time you call, treat or no treat.  In fact, I rarely call, but simply use a hand signal.

Training is crucial, and training APART from one another. I will agree that when I'm teaching "come" there should be no option, and that tends to mean, being leashed until they learn that coming to me is always GOOOOOD.

By the way, welcome to idog!

glenmar

Yep, consistency and repetition are absolutely key.  And your dogs *should* come each and every time you call, treat or no treat. 

I agree with Glenda. I also think come is the most important command you can teach your dog.

Training is crucial, and training APART from one another. <---I think this is what you should work on and not bring them together to train until they have mastered it apart.

Jackie, I have a very submissive dog and I think its a good thing to promote a little bit of "balls" in him. He doesnt go looking for a fight, he runs the other direction if there is a scuffle lol. He has never attacked another dog, he just "tells" them to back off and leave him alone when they wont stop and when I notice a dog being aggressive towards him (not just trying to dominate) I do leave. But again, I dont have issues with that at the park I take him to now.

First off, you can't really teach an adult dog to moderate its behavior with other dogs.  Their play style is their play style, and if other dogs at the dog park are being bullied by either of your dogs, then the dog that is doing the bullying does not belong at the dog park.  It's YOUR interpretation that they "like being with other dogs" but I would submit that you might want to reevaluate that - it's quite possible that what they like is being with SOME other dogs:-)  And, the flip side of that is whether the other dogs enjoy their company.  It can be difficult sometimes to put together a compatible play group.  I always suggest asking the owners of the dogs your dogs DO play well with if they would be willing to form a play group that meets in a fenced area, even the dog park at non-peak hours.  But, it's not OK to perpetrate bullying on other dogs for any reason.  Even if your dog had a 100% recall with or without treats, you would have to have the presence of mind to call the dog to you *before* it bullied anyone.  That might be near impossible in a dog park situation.  Also, dogs that played well with others all throughout puppy hood sometimes decide that they are not going to be the hale fellow well met in adulthood.  Adjust, don't just keep trying to force the square peg into the round hole.  If you want a 100% recall, you DO build it with food, but you DON'T use food as a bribe.  If you want to train a recall in the right sequence, there are two great resources I can point you to.  One is Leslie Nelson's "Really Reliable Recall" DVD, and the other is Pam Dennison's "Training the Whistle Recall."