Aggressive Pit Bull lives in our neighborhood

auburn2932

Next door to us our neighbors have (3) pitt bull.  They do have their yard fenced in, but the dogs have gotten out a few times.  I can usually hear them barking when out so I never take Ava out then.  Once in awhile they are out when we are out so far no problems, I trust the two females, but not the male, he is pretty aggressive.  Hope we all stay safe.  I'd keep my dog on a leash always.

When I lived in the same house where the lady across the street warned me about her pitty..... about a year later a couple moved in with  two adult Pitties.... Sarah and Zeke...and their 12 puppies.  They used to throw about 5 bones in the pen for 12 puppies to make the strong survive. Sarah could jump the 6 ft pen without a running start...and did.  But one day she got out the front door and chased my Cindy ( Shepherd/Dane ) who ran from the front to the back patio door that was closed. Cindy rolled over on her back and Sarah didn't do a darn thing to her.  THANK GOD!  But they rented there and were gone after their first year lease.  Oh......and all the puppies but one died of Parvo that summer.

Dyan, I get the Direct Stop at Petsmart.  Here it is usually with either with the walking stuff like the leashes, collars and that stuff.  OR, it is sometimes on these displays that they have near where the training area is with training treats and clickers, etc. 

PS-The other spray you saw, the citronella spray, is probably a similar product.  Direct Stop is citronella too. 

Unfortunately, Dyan, you just have to keep him leashed and carry something like the spray to protect yourself.  As far as quick pee breaks, you don't-IMO- have to get ridiculous with the leash thing if its late and you know they are in for the night then let him out fast. Just make sure you are watching closely for him or any other dog that might pop up out of nowhere. 

I feel bad for these people because I know what they are going thru.  I don't understand why they are walking around telling people that he hates dogs.  What is the purpose of that?  The responsibility is on them to manage the dog.  They shouldn't be trying to create fear in the neighbors to make their job easier.  

dyan

Wow!

Potential disaster to take my dog out to pee at the side of my house while I am with him once in a while?  I am not making it safe for the general public?  Please.  While SOME of us have COMPLETE control of our dogs ( you may or you may not )....most don't.  Many people on the dog forums are afraid that if their dogs get out of the house they will run away... not me. Gibby will not go anyway..I can call him back.  JUST not fast enough when we are talking a big strong dog that HATES other dogs.  I don't think you know me or my dogs...many here do.  Gibby is a big goofy Great Dane.

 

So because some people are irresponsible that gives you the right to be so also?  I have no problem with you making a quick pee break off leash with your dog if you are 99.9% sure you can verbally contain him in your yard.  You however, have already admitted you can't stop him from bounding out of your yard to greet people.  Friendly dogs die every day because they run across the street to say hi to the other human, dog, squirrel, cat, or so on and get hit by a car.  The fact is you don't know who or what might be out on the street when Gibby goes bounding out.  You don't know if there is going to be a little toddler and Gibby is going to go bounding over and the toddler might fall back in fear, sprain their wrist or get a scratch and Gibby could be labeled a dangerous dog even though he never even touched the kid merely because the people around are going to see it as a big huge dog running over and a little kid getting hurt.

To me part of being a responsible dog owner is taking the time it needs to make sure my dog is under my control.  Yes, accidents happen.  To me however an accident would be my dog getting between my legs and bolting out unexpectedly.  Not however, taking my dog out purposely without a leash when I knew I can''t verbally stop them in time.  You are knowingly rolling the dice. 

For two years I leashed Kirby before taking him out every time because I didn't feel confident in how he would react and my verbal control over him.  I did this despite the fact I live on an acre so there is plenty of time to react and you can't even see the street from the back of my house where he was going.  I also did this despite the fact he is a velcro baby who would not run off on his own.  I took the time until I was satisfied with our bound and training to know that when like yesterday I was out in front with him and we saw two kittens bounding across a neighbors yard I could tell him to wait and leave it, and he would. 

I'm sorry, but I don't see how the few extra seconds it takes to slip a slip lead on is worth the risk to your dog or anyone else who is out and about.  I'm not saying this because I want to be nasty or mean, but because I don't want to sugar coat the issue only to find out three days from now Gibby had half his face ripped off by this pit bull because he bounded over to say hello to its owner.

 

Lori... I don't know if PS doesn't sell Direct Stop anymore or what..because that is the area that I looked in and asked the clerk..she handed me the other..and I honestly didn't realize that DS was citronella... and I wanted to get the right thing. 

KK... what you don't see, perhaps I didn't make you see......is that I live in a little friendly cul de sac.....there is a petting farm behind me with pasture and an area of growth between my back and their barn. Our street is not even wide enough to be a dedicated street. Because there are cluster homes its mainly old people that hang out in their house, or in the case of the Pitties owners a young couple that seem to work during the day. There are no little kids that live here and rarely someone has a grandbaby here, including me.Gibby LOVES the little kids...but I am always ON GUARD when they are around... something a giant breed owner has to learn...when you see your dogs mouth the same height as a little ones face.   I've been here for 14 years and Gibby is the third Dane I have had in this house... all of them have come outside with me when I work outside...at first tied up until I can trust them..and then without a leash occasionoally just to sniff around the house, and in the winter to run around the outside for exercise.  Hardly no one comes down here, but yes..occasionally they do. We DO have people walking their dog by every now and again.  Our mailman, landscapers and garbage man LOVE Gibby...he has been in the mail truck several times, and one of the fellas that cut grass makes it a point to come to pet him. So its been peaceful and fun to live here with my dogs.....and its good for them to occasionally be out without a leash because when I take him to a few places such as my sisters house we go out and let him run and fetch a ball and things I don't do here..it reminds him to stay by me and not run off.  Its too darn bad it has to change.

KK...I appreciate  your input,,,I really do. And I'm very sorry that I am not seeing eye to eye with you because I think this is the typical case of " its not what you say, its the way you say it" sort of thing.....the kind of thing that broke this forum up a few years back.... I came here for opinions...and I expected to hear a few, including an opinion such as yours.  I didn't expect to feel like I have an uncontrolable bad dog , am breaking rules and being a bad dog parent and a stupid one at that by anyone here.....its the kind of feeling that made so many leave this very same dog forum years ago.   I did however come here for a friendly discussion...perhaps a hint or two... or what someone else might have done or would do. I'm sorry but your just not sounding very friendly to me and I am reminded of why I don't come here much anymore.

Im with kk and kim on this, sorry. You just have to be willing to accept other opinions besides your own sometimes. I am not sure what you were looking for when posting this? Advice on how to get these people to stop walking their dog or advice on how to guarantee that your dog wont be attacked when you let it outside off leash to go pee? The problem is that you know this dog is da. You know your dog doesnt like that dog. You know that there will be a fight if your dog goes outside off leash and the da dog and owner happen to be walking by. So, being a level headed, smart dog owner, what is the best course of action to avoid the issue? I would think the best course of action would be to not let your dog off leash. Do you see another option?

This reminds me of the time when i was riding my bike with dakota in my moms neighborhood. A neighbor a few houses down had their golden off leash in their yard while they were outside doing yard work. Im sure this dog was a great dog 99.9% of the time. However, when we rode by, the dog ran out after us, cut in front of my bike and attacked dakota, causing me to flip over my handlebars and land on the pavement. Was i in the wrong? My dog was on leash and we were in the public road. Their dog was not on leash and was not under their control. They were at fault. Had i had serious injuries, i would have sued their butts to heck and back. As it was, i just called ac.

So, flip this to your situation. Your dog is great 99.99% of the time. The neighbor is doing their thing, walking their dog on leash minding their own business and out comes your dog and attacks. The owner is injured trying to break up the fight. You get sued, the dogs get put down.......not exactly a good situation.

 

Jewlieee

Im with kk and kim on this, sorry. You just have to be willing to accept other opinions besides your own sometimes.

I didn't know there were sides....and you know...I didn't give an opinion for anyone to agree or disagree with.  As I stated..I did come here for discussion...and I was looking for all opinions.... including everyones.   I just didn't expect the unfriendly tone.... the "so because some people are irresponsible, that gives you the right to be so also?" kind of attitude.  And I truely don't understant it either.   I just don't belong here anymore, that I can see.

Thanks guys!

 

 

 

 

Jewlieee

Im with kk and kim on this, sorry. You just have to be willing to accept other opinions besides your own sometimes.

I didn't know there were sides....and you know...I didn't give an opinion for anyone to agree or disagree with.  As I stated..I did come here for discussion...and I was looking for all opinions.... including everyones.   I just didn't expect the unfriendly tone.... the "so because some people are irresponsible, that gives you the right to be so also?" kind of attitude.  And I truely don't understant it either.   I just don't belong here anymore, that I can see.

Thanks guys!

 

 

 

Dyan, really don't worry about it so much.  Willow is an aggressive dog and my neighbors and their dogs have all survived us.  I also lived in a 2nd floor apartment with her for 5 years.  It will be fine.  I'd go get that citronella spray that you saw to have when you are out-in case an accident happens.  She could accidentally drop the leash-I've done that.  It doesn't have to be this maniac dog pulls away from her to get to another dog.

Because honestly, short of them not walking around or you training Gibby to stop on a dime and come back to you its really all you can do. 

willowchow

Because honestly, short of them not walking around or you training Gibby to stop on a dime and come back to you its really all you can do. 

Yep..because most likely neither of the above are going to happen in the near future.  Gibby is really better off leash about listening...but we can't take that chance...he is one of those dogs that sometimes gets way way too excited... not sure he knows I am there sometime.

Back to PetSmar tomorrow...so glad you gave me that idea. Thank you!

dyan

I didn't give an opinion for anyone to agree or disagree with.  As I stated..I did come here for discussion...and I was looking for all opinions.... including everyones.   I just didn't expect the unfriendly tone.... the "so because some people are irresponsible, that gives you the right to be so also?" kind of attitude.  And I truely don't understant it either.   I just don't belong here anymore, that I can see.

Dyan, it is too bad you feel this way.  You gave a written picture of your situation - I'm not sure what you expected, that everyone would sugarcoat their answers and agree with you?  Realistically, it is your responsibility to keep Gibby safe from anything that might harm him, whether it is a small dog, a DA dog, a little kid who might try to ride him, a car, or he himself being loose and putting himself in a situation simply doing "dog things".  And the owners of the pit must be responsible for theirs.

Dyan, I don't get the feeling that anyone is jumping down your throat. I get the feeling that people are getting a bit frustrated that you don't seem to understand the points we are trying to make. Of course Gibby is a great dog, and does doggy things! Nobody is questioning that. Nobody is questioning the level of training that you have done with him. 

But if you can look at it another way - your responsibility to your dog should also include being responsible so that your dog does not frighten or scare other dogs as well.  I'm not sure if you've dealt with dogs with aggression before, in terms of human aggro or dog aggro (maybe you have) - but it can be a frustrating time.  Gaci was (is?) once that way.  You wouldn't know it now to see her out in public, or mingling with a group of boarders here at the house, but it's true. And with all of the work we've done to get there, it can really frighten her and throw her on the defensive if she sees another dog come barreling towards her. Even if the dog was just coming to see me - she wouldn't get that. It's not even about the injuries that would result, as I'm sure 90% of these conflicts are dealt with with no real contact. But at the same time I would be downright angry at the owner of that dog for allowing their dog to run out into our space, even if their dog "was friendly", because it could be a setback for an unstable dog, or depending on the dog, it could be an altercation that I have been trying to prevent for the last several years!

I know you've come here for information. But unfortunately I think the problem lies in that I think you were (as we all often are) hoping for us to agree with you, talk about how bad that owner is, and how irresponsible, etc. But really the conversation needs to be to look at your dog - because that's the only one you can be responsible for!

 We can't give the pitbull owner advice, and because they are not here to share their side, it's really naive of anyone here to assume they know what the owner is feeling or experiencing, and we definitely can't assume that they aren't doing everything THEY can to prevent problems as well (again - having worked with a lived with aggressive dogs). THEY have their dog onleash and contained while in public (and I don't think it's fair to say that because she's tiny, she will not be able to hold the dog back. I am a small person, and I have been able to control some of the most out of control animals). THEY have warned you that their dog is a certain way (many ignorant owners do not go to that extent!).  THEY have said they don't walk their dogs in certain areas because of it.  Those all to me right now sound like they are doing their best to help a dog in need.  Whether it's enough - I don't know.  But at least they aren't being ignorant about their dog.  They are showing some caution.

So well-meaning people here are *trying* to give you advice to keep your dog safe, and you safe, and so that you can make sure you are doing YOUR part to not make the situation worse than it may be. You came here for discussion. Discussion is all that I'm seeing. Just because somebody might give you advice that you didn't expect, it doesn't mean they aren't trying to help you.  Folks who don't want to help you don't post. To take the time means that somebody, somewhere - wants you to be safe.  It's hard to understand emotion in text, for sure, and sometimes there's only one way to say things - openly and honestly. And sometimes it is hard to accept what truly is good information, because it does go against what we've been doing up to this point.

I don't think anybody here is calling you irresponsible, but rather saying that if you continue the way you are going, knowing what your dog will do in a given situation (normal doggy things), knowing that this dog will walk by your home (not a normal doggy), and something happens - that will be an irresponsible act.  Because you can't any longer say you didn't know.  It would be different if the first time you ever saw the dog something happened, and it was a surprise to everybody. But it's no surprise. You know. So now it is up to you to decide to make a change. Because you can't control any other situation, other than your own. That is, I feel, the important part of what folks are trying to tell you. 

Kim_MacMillan

Folks who don't want to help you don't post.

Kim, this is not the case.  Its not right to say that because folks aren't posting here, they don't want to help.  I care.  I simply don't have any more to offer than whats already been advised. 

I, by no means, consider myself a trainer and one who could offer substantial advice for Dyan.  I do agree that only we can make changes to the way we manage our dogs in situations as described here. 

I respect you wholeheartedly, Kim.  Don't get me wrong.  I respect the way you and KK always try to offer alternative views on the issues at hand.  And, I see how frustrating it must be to you that these views are sometimes perceived as offensive to OPs.  And, I agree that sometimes OPs ARE trying to solicit support in their views only.  

Dyan, I am not directing this towards you.   I, and others, have created threads where opposing views have been offerred.  We just have to be open to seeing both sides.  Sometimes I find myself walking through life with blinders on.  Having these opposing views helps me to broaden my perspectives.  Here's hoping you can think about what these folks are saying; and look at things from another vantage point and how it could help you and Gibby.

I just wrote a whole too long post and accidentally double posted it and its gone..hope it doesn't show up after writing this one.

Kim you took a long time to write your last post and I appreciate it. Yes I took offense to Gibbys issues idea and probably should not have expressed that because maybe that is what is turning people against me now. I hear everything you are saying and everyone else and I appreciate everyone taking the time to give me their opinion..I have said that before.    I can honestly say I am frustrated to tears on this thread, I really can't believe where it went.

I am trying to answer your questions in my head " why did you come here with this? What did you expect? Do you only want people agree with your opinions?"  I re-read everything I wrote.  I wrote " I guess the ONLY thing I can do is keep Gibby leashed at all time", I wrote that I feel sorry for these people, and I wrote that I respect these people for saving the dog"  I even wrote about this whole thing REVERSED where when I take leashed Gibby for a walk on my street and the little dog that comes barking in his face with his owner laughing because his little dog is not afraid of my big one!"  I don't understand where my opinion is different.  What did I expect out of the conversation?  Not sure, maybe someone else's experience, maybe they ran into the same sort of deal. Maybe some advise on what they would do or wouldnt' do.  Maybe some advise on how to get DH to not run Gibby out quickly for that quick pee, maybe for some moral support, some " eeks....thats a toughie",  maybe for some info like Willow gave about the Direct Stop since it will add a little confidence to our walks, maybe just plain for some sympathy...after all......I thought this was my friendly dog forum that I have been on for years with dog friends that support one another.   I didn't expect for anyone to directly turn on me and that is exactly what I FEEL has happened. Over the years I dropped out of the food thread...too many strong opinons and arguments. Never got into training threads with the opposite training methods, I sure didn't expect to get myself in trouble here.

1) I am not an expert on training dogs.

2) Not really familiar with GDs or PB.

3) Did not stay in a Holiday last night.

The people with the PB are taking a big risk walking a known DA dog in an area with other dogs.  The PB should be muzzled if in public .  It is a known problem and the owners will be held to a higher standard if there are fights.

MN law on potentially dangerous dogs:

Subd. 3. Potentially dangerous dog. “Potentially dangerous dog” means any dog that:

(1) when unprovoked, inflicts bites on a human or domestic animal on public or private property;

(2) when unprovoked, chases or approaches a person, including a person on a bicycle, upon the streets, sidewalks, or any public or private property, other than the dog owner's property, in an apparent attitude of attack; or

(3) has a known propensity, tendency, or disposition to attack unprovoked, causing injury or otherwise threatening the safety of humans or domestic animals.

In Minneapolis:

  

Owners of potentially dangerous animals must meet the following requirements:

• The animal must be muzzled and on a three-foot leash controlled by an adult any time the dog is not inside a dwelling or in an approved kennel.
• The animal must be micro chipped.
• The animal must be registered with MACC annually and must have an annual ‘dangerous animal’ city license.
• The animal must be kept in a secure area when persons other than family members are present inside the home.
• If kenneled outside, the animal must be in an approved kennel that meets the specific requirements outlined in city ordinance.

If the PB and GD were to fight, there is a strong chance the GD would do serious harm to the PB.  Not promoting a fight, but the GDs were originally bred for a purpose.

 

Dyan, I do understand this situation from both sides.  Many years ago, my beloved husky Shari was attacked by a large male pit that smashed through the fence to get to her as we were on our nightly walk.  She was leashed, as was our other dog.  The dog couldn't even see us - it was a stockade fence.  We had few choices where to walk to avoid the yard because they lived right across the street from us and they were on the corner that led to the subdivision.  The pits would become agitated even if we were on our own side of the street.  It was well known in the neighborhood that both the male and female pits had broken out of the fence and killed a couple of small dogs previously, which I did not know then.  At that time, I had no knowledge of pits or DA dogs, but I will never forget the sheer terror I felt when the male pit's head broke through the fence and he charged right up to Shari and grabbed her by the throat.

Shari was not a small dog, but she was not a fighter - she tried to run away.  Her thick fur, along with me pulling on the leash which made her collar loosen and therefore his bite, saved her throat, but she was bitten in the ankle when she tried to run. She was never the same afterwards - she was terrified of other dogs, but not DA.  She avoided other dogs at all costs, usually hiding behind me (which was funny for such a big dog).  And I did everything I could to protect her for the rest of her life, but I didn't stop walking her or taking her out in public.

I'm sure you don't want anything like this, or worse, to happen to Gibby.