AGGRESSIVE LAB / MIX

It's odd that the shelter won't take her back.  Even if she did bite someone I would think they'd take her off your hands and euthanize her.

Do I think it is wrong to make that sort of decision? No.  She sounds like she would be a HUGE investment of time, commitment, money, training, micromanaging her every move around your kids and neighbors.  Is that a commitment I'M willing to make? Nope.   You can only know your own heart in what you feel is best.   This dog you describe is not a happy dog, he's a liability.

You say she is a Lab mix - mixed with what?  Do you have pics we could see?  Many shelters tell adopters that a dog is a *whatever* mix, so they don't have to identify the dogs as Pit mixes, which can be very dog aggressive.  Other shelters simply don't know what the dog is, so they call anything that is black a Lab mix;-)

Have you spoken to a veterinarian about medication?  Some dogs do well on it, with some there's no difference.  I would have some concerns about a dog with zero bite inhibition that is growling at children in her own home.  (Don't correct her for growling, though - it's your early warning system!) There are many aggressive dogs that are obedient dogs - but, their basic temperament doesn't change, only the threshold at which they might be triggered, and you are right, it can take a long time to install that behavior modification.  If you are unwilling to keep the dog, and she does sound like somewhat of a liability, then if you know the shelter is going to euthanize her, be kind and do it yourself - at least the last thing she will see is a loving owner and not a scary shelter.  Sorry that you got stuck with a problem dog, and I feel terrible for her, as life is probably not as happy as it should have been...

Here are some pictures.  She has longer hair down the middle of her back and scruff of her neck.  I'm not sure if that is common with labs. 

Spiritdogs 

I think you are right.  That is the more better way to go about it.  I'd hate to leave her in a shelter full of what she was scared of in the first place.  I've never corrected her for growling but just ignored like the trainer said.  I backed away and ignored the behavior.

 I haven't spoke with the vetenarian about medication.  I will call them Monday.  I'm sorry I got stuck with this too.  I hate making this god awful choice and it kills me thinking about it.  If only I could have saved her from her previous owners so she would not have turned this way.

shamrockmommy, 

I agree.  They won't take her because she is a liability to them and they don't have that kind of insurance because her bite was unprovoked and she bit me.  I'm very upset about that.  They are telling me that she is not good to adopt out to another family, then why do they leave me to make this choice and do this terrible thing???  I'm stuck doing something I'd never in a million years think to do.  I have to protect my children, and what if something happened??  I couldn't even imagine.

The whole situations sucks (sorry, for lack of a better word!).  She is not a happy dog... like Spirit dogs said, it is better, I think, to take her in and be with her when she is euth'd.  The vet can usually dispose of her body.  She will be with you- her person who tried to help her- her person who still cares what's best for her.  And best for you and especially your kids.  Families with kids need a dog who is tolerant of kid behavior.  I teach my kids to be polite around my dogs and talk about what dogs consider rude (human) behavior, but they are still young and make mistakes.  A dog that you describe could cause a LOT of damage very quickly.  To me, it's just not worth it.  If you were to place her with another family and she bites them, then you are on the hook for placing a dangerous dog.

I was in this situation once with one of my own dogs.  It was a horrible situation, but ultimately best for the dog, honestly.

I'll be thinking of you in whatever you choose.

DOGOWNERNEEDSHELP

shamrockmommy, 

I agree.  They won't take her because she is a liability to them and they don't have that kind of insurance because her bite was unprovoked and she bit me.  I'm very upset about that.  They are telling me that she is not good to adopt out to another family, then why do they leave me to make this choice and do this terrible thing???  I'm stuck doing something I'd never in a million years think to do.  I have to protect my children, and what if something happened??  I couldn't even imagine.

When she bit you, was it a nip or a puncture?  And, what does your trainer say about this?  Some dogs nip to get attention, and if your trainer is telling you to ignore the dog when she does that, it's probably to try to teach her that she will no longer get attention for that behavior.  To be honest, without more information, I think it's premature to say that you should go ahead and euth her, I just think that if that does turn out to be your final decision, that you should do it and not have her die at the shelter.  Before I would do that, I would prefer, if it were me, to see a behaviorist (Ph.D or DVM), if you can afford that.  Or, trial her on meds if you think her reactions are out of anxiety.  Seriously, depending on the dog it can make a huge difference.  Whatever happens, I know you will do the best for your dog and your family.

BTW, very few, if any, bites are "unprovoked" - it's just that we don't always know the reason.   Some dogs feel threatened by eye contact and will bite, others guard space or food or toys, and others do it to demand attention.   That's why it's often useful to see a behaviorist - the questionnaire gives them a better idea what kind of issues the dog really has.

shamrockmommy, I agree.  I couldn't imagine if she hurt one of my kids.  Just this morning she growled at my youngest for getting into bed with us.  This is not a happy dog.  I honestly gave her so much love and treats and I just wish that she would realize how much I care.  I know exactly what you are talking about teaching the kids about rude behavior for dogs.  They have made some mistakes as well.  It's so odd because we picked a lab because we knew they were tolerable of kid behavior. 

  I just don't know if I can be with her when it happens.  I recently lost my cat of 14 years from cancer.  I had to put her down because it was so hard for her to breathe and she was suffering so badly.  I was with her till the last breath and it was the hardest thing I ever had to do (I still remember every detail).  Never did I ever want to go through that again so soon.  I can imagine at old age when they are sick but this is such a young dog and it breaks my heart.  Also, it's been a year from this month that my brother passed away so suddenly.  I've held out as long as I could and tried my best. I know this is probably the right thing to do for my family's safety but always am going to think a bunch of "what if's" and this is going to hurt a long while.

 Thank you so much for your kind words and your understanding. 

She punctured my right hand and there was quite a bit of blood.  Her trainer said it was because I broke up the fight wrong which is why I didn't blame her for the bite.  She attacked the other dog pretty badly.  She just ran out like a train and there was no eye contact.  She just went right for the neck and pulled the dog down to the ground.  Maybe she was jealous becasue my daughter was standing there, I don't know.  But she is very unpredictable and is almost like Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde.  The other dog had to get stitches and had drain tubes hanging.  This happened another time where she got lose and ran up to a man walking two dogs a couple houses down.  The same thing where the kids left the screen door and did not close the inner door.  She managed to get out then and circled those 2 dogs almost 20 times.  My husband had to literally stand in front of the two dogs and circle in front of our dog.  She nipped at one but luckily my husband got her away.  The poor guy almost had a heart attack.  What if he did?? 

 She also nips to get attention and tries to mouth us when we play but it has died down since training (she knows it doesn't get anywhere).  She just uses redirected aggression.  When she sees someone walking outside or hears dogs barking she takes it on us and growls and barks at us.  I was studying alone while my husband took my daughters out and she was laying by my feet.  A dog starts barking outside and she begins to bark and growl.  I ignored her and then she started walking towards me barking and growling.  I still ignored her but it was scary.  Especially because I was home all alone.  I wish I could afford a behaviorist and medication but unfortunately I'm still going to school and we just can't afford that type of thing.  We've already paid out so much for training and the last dog bite incident. 

 If I didn't have children, I would be able to have a better environment to train her.  Unfortunately I have a pretty exciting household alot of the time and that's not helping the situation. 

Oh, the trainer is also upset the shelter was not helpful about this.  She also said it was my decision.  I either have the choice of putting her down or fixing the problem.  She also agreed that this is going to take a great deal of work and understood the situation we were in (kids, work, school). She said I'd have to put every minute into this and go full force.  I'm trying but it's hard with a family and school in the picture. 

 She mentioned that it's a terrible choice to make but if she is not at peace, it's better to put her at peace.  She would support whatever choice I made.   

I think she's clearly dog aggressive, and probably quite pushy.  I'm a bit concerned that she punctured you when she redirected, but, honestly it isn't that uncommon when a dog is already in fight mode and attacking another dog, so your trainer was right about the fact that it should have been broken up another way.  The dog may not have even realized it was you grabbing her, and responded as if it were another dog coming at her from behind.  Clearly, you do not have the option of her EVER getting loose again.  She could certainly be trained to wear a muzzle when she is outside on her walks, and that's not that big of a deal to teach.   There's a nice little guide to muzzle training on the morcco.com site.  Obviously, in a family with children, where other people's kids will be walking in and out of your home, it's hard to be 100% sure she will be contained, unless you have the capacity for a secure kennel for her.  I have a dog that is pretty guardy of me and my property (albeit a very obedient dog) and I habitually take these precautions with her despite the fact that I CAN control her even off leash.  So, I know what you are up against.  I would still consult the vet about it.  In one instance that I know of, a dog that I used to groom turned into a pretty different dog on medication.  We couldn't even get him in the tub without a tie muzzle before the meds (he was downright nasty), and after the meds, he let us lift him in and he put up with everything else, too.  Not saying it will work in your dog's case, but if the alternative is euthanasia, might be worth a try.  In any case, I'm glad you aren't in denial, and that you understand the gravity of owning a dog that attacks and hurts other dogs, as well as the necessity for protecting all the people in her life.

We don't have the capacity for a kennel and I know it would be alot to teach her (if we did have one) because at the shelter she was fighting going in one.  It took 2 people to bring her in a kennel at the shelter.  You are right, that is really what I'm up against.  Trying to contain her with kids going in and out AND being able to control her off leash.  I've worked on it many times and she's great without distractions.  Once a dog or person walks by, there is no getting her out of it no matter what I put in front of her face (treat).  She then redirects the aggression to me and my husband barking and growling at us.  She now is redirecting it also on my kids and snapped her jaws at my youngest daughters' face.  Yesterday my daughter climbed into bed with us in the morning and our dog growled and barked at her.  Our youngest was confused and looked at her.  She was caught in a stare with our dog.  It started to escalate (barking and growling) and I turned her head to stop the stare.  I explained to them before how dogs think that you want to fight if you stare.  

It is honestly expecting too much to be consistent with little ones.  When someone came over to measure windows, we put her in the 3rd bedroom because she was growling and barking at the guy.  For some reason, our youngest  opens the door and our dog comes running straight to the guy snapping and barking.  Thank God my husband was there to stop her and  put her back but things like this can happen again.  That would mean I'd have to keep a muzzle on her almost all day.

 Her vet appointment is today and it is probably going to be one or the other choice today depending on what the vet says.  My heart is so heavy and I can't breathe.

Sorry for your predicament.. 

Years ago our family had from a puppy and aggressive golden retriever. If we knew then what I know now she would not have lived to be 14 1/2 years old. She bit every member of our family at least once, and a neighbor kid too. She was quarantined for 10 days that time. We just sequestered her away from the world. Our golden attacked another dog too, new neighbors, unprovoked, she went straight for the throat. No we did not put her down.. amazing huh.

You can not risk your kids. Rescuing a dog from a shelter or rescue is an admirable thing. I try to direct people I know to rescues, because they use foster homes to hopefully weed out these dogs. 

Your dog is cute, I can see why you chose her. She looks like a friend of mines dog who we suspect is a cross between a doberman and lab. We call him either a dobrador, or a labraman. 

Again I am sorry for the spot you are in. 

Ann