Dog park questions

AgileGSD

tiffy

 Tootsie, my sweet and gentle corgi is not a dog park dog. First, she'd rather be with humans.Second, she doesn't play with dogs, except to bark annoyingly at them. Third, also the most important thing is : She doesn't appreciate any rude greeting behavior and if a dog mounts her, Game Over. She'll quickly about face, give a low growl and then as many air-snaps it takes to get the other pooch to back off.

 

 

 Tootsie sounds like a true herding breed girl!

She sure does...they definitely have a no humping rule. 

To the previous poster: taking a young puppy to the dog park as you described is ok, it's when you are trying to assess the suitability of a dog that is past the socialization stage of development that you need to be more careful:-) 

 I disagree with who ever said if you are worried what he will do  because you don't, don't take him to the dog park.... I have a giant breed and we always have to worry about our dog even playing normal like the others, because they are so big they CAN hurt others.  I was afraid to take any of my dogs to the DP because of it. But you dont know how they will be until you do.

I think one should try their dog out when there is just a couple of dogs there... and just see. When I took Gibby last year for the first time he was immediately put on the ground on his back with three dogs over him.....I mean three dogs much smaller than him.  Oh...and did I mention the Retriever who wouldn't stop humping him and to this day THAT is what his fun is at the DP and his owner doesn't do much about it.     Some dogs play together, some dogs run together and some dogs just like to be free there....that is Gibby I think. He does'nt really play with anyone... and he hates dogs that bark in his face all the time...which there is a couple of. 

I think you just need to be aware of every dog that gets close to yours as well as be aware of your dog getting close to everyone elses.  If everyone keeps their eyes open and prepared, things will be fine.  But dogs are dogs.....you don't know what they are thinking or what they will do next.   You don't really know what a big room full of people are always going to do. And as was said.... dog parks are not that important. A dog is not going to suffer for not going to one... and seriously might be better off to not go.   I was on the committee to build ours... took Ollie there and he got sick everytime afterwards...probably from finding puddles to drink. After Bubblegum attacked Ollie that one time..I would NOT ever take her there ( although I used to take her when NO ONE was there at all ) and Gibby goes on and off.  I do believe in them but I don't believe they are probably the best thing for all dogs.

 Yes, Tootsie is a true herder, through and through.

Casey enjoys going to the park. Benny did - but the last two times we were there, both times - he was attacked by large, uncontrolled dogs. That was a while ago, and we have not gone back since.

I do not want a vet visit, or a fearful dog. We do our running in our yard, around the neighborhood and at the beach now. Works best for us. And considering I almost got myself thrown out of the park when the big dog grabbed my aussie - it's probably best I stay away 

They work fine for some, and not for others. I would like to go back - but am not willing to take that risk.

Yes....dog parks can be scary....and they can be dangerous. And sometimes there is not a lot you can do about it. THIS happened to Gibby as a Great Dane meet at a dog park last year.....it scared the heck out of me...... these dogs just came there not long before we were leaving....and they ran in together and were all excited and saw Gibby.  I ran to stop it....they probably would have killed me but I was going to try.   The owner of the dogs got there first and said " its okay..." and called them off. The dogs WERE okay after they ran Gibby down.  Gibby came out of it okay.... he just be bopped away.  The first picture was when they first came and kind of pushed at him.. and it went on from there.

IMG]http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p174/Dyank123/GibbyHELP.jpg[/IMG]

IMG]http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p174/Dyank123/GibbyWus.jpg[/IMG]

So I wonder why the other two pictues didn't open.

 I wonder if you might have a daycare in the area that does evaluations before allowing people to leave dogs there. Though, you would have to check out who evaluates. We have one around here, when they evaluate, the people doing it really have no qualifications to do so. I wouldn't leave a dog there for anything. Another is at a place I go to for training sometimes, and the trainer evaluates if your dog can come to day care.

I go to a dog park here that is members only. I think this is something I definitely prefer, having gone once or twice to non-membership places. We are required to get the dogs shots,  they must have county licenses, and you must go to owner training within 2 months of joining or risk your access card being deactivated. In the membership park, it's cleaner. The people pick up after their dogs. Not everyone follows every single rule, but at least if I have to tell someone about it, I don't seem like I am acting better than them. I can pose it as though maybe they haven't been to class yet, so it was just a simple issue of them really not knowing any better (even though it is on the sign). I rarely see people there with chokes or prongs on the dogs, and although I have seen screaming lunatics, I haven't seen anyone trying to pretend to be Cesar Milan. 

If you are going to go, starting out with those mid day empty times can be a good start. Often when I go, it is empty. My dog doesn't care so much about the other dogs. He is there primarily to fetch his ball. He has no issues if another dog comes in and takes his ball, though I am pretty certain he is happiest to be the only dog there and just fetch the ball over and over.  Other dogs can be interested in him, and he doesn't care all too much. One particular dog was really in love with him. Just desperately wanted to play with him, and he was totally uninterested in this dog. We also have started to go to a walking group on Monday nights. This dog was at the walking group last week, and was very interested in my dog when they were walking on leash.

I'm wondering if those two are house-mates and used to wrestle play like that, whereas Gibby was not.  A picture doesn't capture the whole experience, of course, but it looks like rough housing play, which can scare a lot of people, particularly if there's vocalization... which can also scare some dogs who aren't accustomed to such play.  Often escalating into more than play.

Yesterday I watched a dog performing the exact tips reco'd by Sit Means Sit for mitigating energy in the dog park, and it worked like a charm.  The dog sat and held his ground, watching his owner, while others sniffed and quickly lost interest in trying to hump him (which is what caused the owner to have him sit to begin with.)

Owners often panic and the reality of the situation is often quite different than the perception.  One of the beauties of our supervised play group is that I get to explain what the dogs are doing while the owners are watching them.  It helps them identify normal behavior and understand when to step in and when to just let Fido have fun.  There's a great little book out now for pet owners: "Off Leash Dog Play: A Complete Guide to Safety and Fun."  Of course, if you are really in to evaluating body language, and want to learn more, I recommend Barbara Handelman's book, or Brenda Aloff's.

I mostly trust my dogs in judging other dogs. They have been around loads of different dogs and have a pretty good eye for dogs that should be avoided. Yesterday they were approaching this Boxer we didn't know to greet him and a few metres short Kivi just turned around and came back to me, Erik following his lead. I didn't know what the deal was, as Kivi can be obsessive about greeting dogs. He thinks it only polite to introduce himself to everyone. It was weird for him to bail before touching noses. A minute later the Boxer got into a fight with another dog that didn't stop short of greeting. I guess that Kivi knew what he was about. I confess I tend to play the "wait and see" game with dogs, because I've found in the past that early intervention can actually make things worse. I think it's good in a tense situation for me to give my dogs space to "talk the other dog down". If I come in before they've successfully communicated that they are no threat and don't want to fight I change the dynamics of the situation completely. I can't say how many times I've seen a dog snap at another dog the moment the owner puts their hand on the collar. So I watch and stay ready, and I rarely have to do anything because my boys only want to keep the peace and they are good at it.

Having said that, there are definitely times when I do step in early. And times when I didn't step in and I maybe should have. You've got to be sensible and on your toes, when it comes down to it, but a lot of the time you don't know what's going to happen and the only thing for it is to wait and see. 

miranadobe

I'm wondering if those two are house-mates and used to wrestle play like that, whereas Gibby was not.  A picture doesn't capture the whole experience, of course, but it looks like rough housing play, which can scare a lot of people,

There was actually 3 of them.....but whoever took those pictues kept getting just the tail of the third.  But yes....they all came from the same family and they were rough housing for sure.   And it was scary...they came from no where after all the danes quieted down..... and the one in the first picture just ran right into Gibby which was almost more scary then him being on top of him.   I honestly didn't think they were hurting Gibby....but I also was going to get close enough to see and save him if I had to.......( sure...lol )       So the funny thing was...the following day I took Gibby to OUR dog park, and three little dogs did the exact same thing to him....and he ended up on his back the exact same way.

However... a few weeks ago... a dog kept barking in his face and wouldnt stop and Gibby wasn't tolerating that.  Put a stop to him in a couple of seconds.       But.........that is the kind of thing you have to expect and watch for at a dog park.  And you don't know if at one time its rough housing and another time for real.   You have to be very open minded along with open eyed to take your dog there.

dyan

miranadobe

I'm wondering if those two are house-mates and used to wrestle play like that, whereas Gibby was not.  A picture doesn't capture the whole experience, of course, but it looks like rough housing play, which can scare a lot of people,

 

There was actually 3 of them.....but whoever took those pictues kept getting just the tail of the third.  But yes....they all came from the same family and they were rough housing for sure.   And it was scary...they came from no where after all the danes quieted down..... and the one in the first picture just ran right into Gibby which was almost more scary then him being on top of him.   I honestly didn't think they were hurting Gibby....but I also was going to get close enough to see and save him if I had to.......( sure...lol )       So the funny thing was...the following day I took Gibby to OUR dog park, and three little dogs did the exact same thing to him....and he ended up on his back the exact same way.

However... a few weeks ago... a dog kept barking in his face and wouldnt stop and Gibby wasn't tolerating that.  Put a stop to him in a couple of seconds.       But.........that is the kind of thing you have to expect and watch for at a dog park.  And you don't know if at one time its rough housing and another time for real.   You have to be very open minded along with open eyed to take your dog there.

Dyan, some dogs are always on their backs - we lovingly call them our "bottom feeders" - the criteria I use is to watch the bottom feeder's whole language.  Is the tongue hanging out of the mouth, the eyes squinty, the body curving?  All those are good signs.  If the "top dog" is taken away momentarily by its owner, does the bottom feeder go back?  Also, a sign that both dogs are having fun. 

corvus

Having said that, there are definitely times when I do step in early. And times when I didn't step in and I maybe should have. You've got to be sensible and on your toes, when it comes down to it, but a lot of the time you don't know what's going to happen and the only thing for it is to wait and see. 

Yeah...THIS was one of those times.  They came from no where....Gibby was walking the opposite way....and BOOM.....he had 3 bigger black Danes on his butt.....and I was no where close because this is a great big dog park with a big lake in the middle.....I had to keep going to fetch Gibby from wondering....he seemed to follow any Pug he saw...lol!  But these dogs just showed up....and the one ran Gibby down and all three were in charge. I was helping no matter what.   

Please don't mistunderstand....I'm not even complaining.....I was ready for anything when I took Gibby to that dog park.   And believe me....that "little angel" Gibby ran down the biggest Dane there.....and she came up limping and scared the heck out of us......so its not like Gibby is a soft spoken guy................................................    I was just saving him if I had to.     But the point is BE READY FOR ANYTHING because any thing can happen when you get a bunch of unleashed dogs together.

All things being equal (what a phrase, huh?) I think the usefulness of dog parks depends on the individual dogs. A dog need not go to one to have a happy life. Especially if it turns out being stressful for them.

I would find a stand-off between the Hell's Angels and the Mongols to be an extremely stressful setting. Not knowing anyone from either of those groups, why would I want to be in such a situation? It might be similar for some dogs. They may find the play too hard to read.

Then, again, you can't know until you try. I have noticed that there are differences for dogs defined by who is on leash and who is not on leash. A dog that would normally charge your leashed dog may think twice about it if your dog is unhampered.

Early socialization (Thanks, Ian Dunbar) is so very important. When Shadow was small, he was schooled somewhat by Bonnie, a 90 lb GSD who didn't have much use for adult human males (I can't blamer her, at times, and I am an adult human male.) But, as a small puppy and growing puppy, he played mostly with cats, kittens, and a Jack Russell Terrier named Duke. Duke was his best bud and he would let him eat of his food bowl. To this day, Shadow easily gets along with Dachshunds and he gets along okay with our cat, Jade. He will let her lick his ears and head.

I took him to a dog park once, when he was 1 year and a few months old. He was intact and untrained, except for sit and shake hands. He was wild. He was the fastest dog in the park, regardless of size or breed. He was running up on other males and barking, most likely to establish breeding rights. He kept sniffing around this one female Golden. When he came back to her again, that is when I re-leashed him and away we went. It was too much for him, I think. He never spent enough time as a little puppy around big dogs to learn not to be intimidated. That is, I think his behavior was fear in an unknown situation. His previous owners didn't understand anything about doggy socialization or training classes, or anything. They would wrestle with him in play. So, when I got him and thought I needed to correct him, anything I could, including the scruff and pin, had the opposite effect. It was a reinforcer for whatever I was trying to stop (usually, jumping on humans.)

Could he do okay at a dog park today? Maybe, maybe not. He is not friends with every dog he sees nor is it my job to see to it that he is. It is my job to see to it that he is not in situations that stress him past his ability to handle.

We do go to Dog Days of Denton when I can make it but I don't just place him in the midst of chaos. We maintain our distance and I avoid choke points. I have done lots of training. For the right reward, in most circumstances, he will listen. But he is mostly siberian, after all. And that makes for independence. And there are times when has been keyed up or put off by someone and he rejects treats. And that doesn't make him a bad dog. It just means that the situation is stressful and it is my job to make it better and less stressful, otherwise, he will do what it takes to make it safer, even if it means giving a display meant to encourage others to stay away. He is not vicious or a biter but he will react as any dog does in trying to create an equilibrium. If that means not going to dog parks, fine.

If I were to get another dog as a puppy, then I could have better success with dog parks, having them learn the social realities of such a place from the start.

And there can be different things for different dogs.

Imagine if you lived in a world full of dogs and only had a couple people to talk to.

I know, nice right? lol

 Seriously though, they are pack animals. Socialization is in their very nature. When dogs aren't socialized, it may create anxiety when they encounter another dog. This can only be overcome by introducing them to other dogs, lots of them. You have to start off slow. Go when the park isn't busy at first. Having thirty dogs all trying to sniff an unsure dog can be overwhelming. Before you go to the park, take your dog out for a good long walk so that they can drain any nervous energy that they have. Also check out the dogs in the park and how they are interacting. If you see a dog causing trouble, don't force the issue. Come back another time.

In my experience leashes only cause more issues due to tension on their neck. They are better off running off any nervous energy they may have.

Your dog may snap at another one telling it to "back off, I'm unsure about you". As long as the other dog respects that, there isn't a problem. That's part of the conversation between the dogs. Dogs will try to mount each other when playing. Some will growl when playing. Keep an eye on their ears, tail, and hackles. You know your dog and they will tell you what is going on.

The dog park is like Disneyland for dogs. No matter how old they are, they can be socialized. It takes patience to take it slow at first and then introduce them to more and more dogs as they progress.