Clothier - And One of the Best Blog Posts Ever...

Great article and very true. :)  

Excellent thoughts in that article. Similar to what I thought about Shadow when I realized just how much Husky he is. Though I can command heel, off, hook, I am never surprised at his unending zeal to pull like a freight train and go everywhere as fast as he can. At 6.5 years old, he doesn't always run quite as fast as he did when he was 2, but I think it is because he has refined his technique. His cornering skills are much better. When he was young, he could go skidding around on his belly because he was going too fast for a turn. So, if others thought I didn't have control of him when he wanted to pull, I think I counteracted that by directing him in which direction, but allowing him to be the dog that he is.

 Even today, on a walk, he prefers to do it as a trot, which I can manage because I have a long stride and can walk quickly.

But I do believe in allowing a dog to live within his limitations. Shadow is shy around many people he doesn't know. And he doesn't like everyone. For example, one guy that works at the Petco and has a loud, obnoxious voice and the wrong body language. He will give Shadow one of his favorite treats and sometimes, Shadow won't accept it. He thinks Shadow is just being "spoiled." Now, Shadow's response is not to go for a bite or even an air snap. He's default response is to put distance between him and what it is that he doesn't like. So, I don't force him to like this guy. Or even to be an everyperson therapy dog. I expect him to listen to me and I will lead him away from the stressful things. And to avoid stressful things in the future while, at the same time, rewarding and encouraging calm demeanor in situations that could have been stressful. But, as we know, not all things generalize. Shadow has allowed aggressive little dogs to charge him 3 times before barking back and it still doesn't mean that he will like the guy at Petco. Apples and oranges, perhaps.

Shadow has once or twice air snapped at someone who approached to quickly at someone moving in way too fast with the wrong approach. But he did not bite and the air snap was to change the dynamics and get the other person to back off so that a bite is not necessary. I still don't muzzle Shadow in public and he is not a vicious dog, prone to biting everyone. But a number of people who think they know everything about dogs (and usually don't) give me reason to be proactive. It is they, however, that have to realize that if Shadow doesn't come to them, they will just have to live with that. You can push any dog too far and they have to choices, fight or flight. Other people, usually those who don't stare directly at him and allow him his space will find him walking up to them for a sniff.

In some ways, Shadow is the perfect example of stranger dog etiquette. Don't pressure him and he will find his way to you and then you have a friend for life. Like with our goddaughter. Once she was able to not be afraid of Shadow's size and drop her "defenses." as it were, he was totally into her. When they visit, now, he becomes her dog, following her in heel without a leash around the yard.

This is another reason to understanding Shadow. Not only is he Sibe in metabolism and some physiology, but also very much in temperment. So, his "better" behavior is due to my increased understanding of him, including limitations. Including the fact that he will never be an off-leash dog in public, leash laws notwithstanding. He is a sibe and sibes run at the least provocation. They like humans and can be very loyal and run off and never be seen again. They are used to working in tight groups and a musher with half a brain watt at the very least never pairs them with another dog that they don't like. They are not "dominant" but they are independent. In fact, the best lead dog on a team is not usually the "pack leader" or one that ignores everyone else but their own needs. The lead dog is the one who listens to the human the most but is also the smartest in assessing the needs of the trail.

And I've been drifting, I know. But I do totally get the thoughts of Clothier.

spiritdogs

 We force a lot on dogs, and sometimes, just maybe, too much...  Food for thought:

http://flyingdogpress.com/content/view/141/52/

Great read, thanks for sharing. This problem will never be fixed, though. There will always be people who buy or adopt a breed type that is a mismatch for their personality and/or environment.

I agree too.  And, that's one of the reasons why I personally don't prefer mixed breeds.  I like to know what I can expect the dog (generally speaking) to be like.  I never set out for a chow to be my first dog. But,  I can definately say some of the very things that turn others off about the breed are what I really like about it. 

 Great read.  Thanks. 

"Why are you doing this to this dog?" I know people who have spent years (no exaggeration - some as much as three to five years) getting a terrified dog to the point where the dog can actually move, breathe and eat in a class setting.  Why? “

I don’t know if this was the best example to use.  Sometimes the only alternative to years of training is putting the dog down.

 This part I really think hits the point. It's also not just what people try to do to the dog, but what they try to keep the dog from doing;
“The bloodhound handler annoyed by her dog's constant sniffing.  The countless retriever owners furious with their young Lab or Golden's insistence on putting everything in their mouth and carrying it around! The herding breed owners upset by their dog's nipping at people's heels, reactions to moving objects,”

My boss wanted to adopt a Golden Retriever.  His had died of old age, he likes the breed, and gives them a good home.  When he asked the rescue if this was a dog that would put its nose down and hunt, he learned that these dogs were to be only used as companions.  If that is what you want from a dog, fine.  But it seems to ignore a lot of years of breeding to get an excellent hunting dog with a strong prey drive.  And another dog stayed longer in rescue.  Why would it be considered wrong to hunt with a hunting dog?

Life with a dog is so much better for the owner and the dog if you understand what the dog was bred to be and do. 
 

 ShelterDogs, I really liked that. Thanks.

Why would it be considered wrong to hunt with a hunting dog?

Not that all hunting situations are bad, but I think that many rescues would find some of their funds drying up if they placed dogs in situations where they could be injured, subjected to electronic collars, or made to live outside. That's the reality of life for many hunting dogs, and the dogs that come in to rescue are often dogs that have lived indoors, are not trained to hunt, and spent their early lives as someone's pet.  Contrary to popular thought, they are *not* all abused.  Quite frequently they are there because of financial problems, divorces, housing issues, kids' allergies, hip dysplasia, etc.  The fact that Goldens were bred to retrieve doesn't mean that all of them today would be good retrievers.  Thank the AKC for that, maybe - most retrievers that show are too fat to float lol, and while many of the dogs would probably love a working life, it would be totally foreign to many.

Also, I think the point about the dog in class wasn't that the person shouldn't train the dog, but that perhaps the group setting wasn't the best place.  I know quite a few of those kinds of dogs that do very well in a familiar surrounding, but are terrified when the environment changes.  As long as they stay home, they are loving, wonderful dogs that really don't need to die - they just don't handle novel stimuli very well.  I guess you have to maintain a perspective that keeps the dog's needs in mind, and doesn't require it to fulfill the role of perfect dog in order to be successful.  It's also too bad when someone who thinks they can train the dog into being ok takes on more than they, or the dog, is capable of. Mismatch with a capital M.

spiritdogs

 

Why would it be considered wrong to hunt with a hunting dog?

Not that all hunting situations are bad, but I think that many rescues would find some of their funds drying up if they placed dogs in situations where they could be injured, subjected to electronic collars, or made to live outside. . That's the reality of life for many hunting dogs,

It's also the reality of life for many pet dogs...

AgileGSD

spiritdogs

 

Why would it be considered wrong to hunt with a hunting dog?

Not that all hunting situations are bad, but I think that many rescues would find some of their funds drying up if they placed dogs in situations where they could be injured, subjected to electronic collars, or made to live outside. . That's the reality of life for many hunting dogs,

 

It's also the reality of life for many pet dogs...

Sadly, you are right...

 Honestly, the only activity Jack seems to throw himself into is retrieving--ESPECIALLY water retrievers......as long as it's not tennis balls, I have the only lab on the planet that finds tennis balls boring....

DougB

 Great read.  Thanks. 

"Why are you doing this to this dog?" I know people who have spent years (no exaggeration - some as much as three to five years) getting a terrified dog to the point where the dog can actually move, breathe and eat in a class setting.  Why? “

I don’t know if this was the best example to use.  Sometimes the only alternative to years of training is putting the dog down.

Training does not have to happen in a class setting.  MANY dogs do better one to one or just being trained at home and in normal, every day situations.  Not saying the TRAINING is wrong, but expending such a lot of time and energy trying to get the dog to accept a situation that is not a necessary one (like a class setting) seems at best a waste and at worst (and this is the point she was making I think) unfair to the dog!

Chuffy

Training does not have to happen in a class setting.  MANY dogs do better one to one or just being trained at home and in normal, every day situations.  Not saying the TRAINING is wrong, but expending such a lot of time and energy trying to get the dog to accept a situation that is not a necessary one (like a class setting) seems at best a waste and at worst (and this is the point she was making I think) unfair to the dog!

 Agreed.  I attempted to take my dogs to a few different training classes which didn't work well for various reasons; in addition to the classes often being poorly managed and having too many students per instructor, Pocket was/is very space-sensitive with low tolerance for rude behaviour and Basil was overly excitable and leash reactive.

After thinking about it I realised that the only reason I was putting dogs and humans through so much stress was because I wanted to be a "good" dog owner, but we weren't actually getting any tangible benefits in terms of training.

In the end we ended up training at home or with a few friends and it worked so much better - we could actually LEARN and PRACTISE things at training instead of just spending the hour or so at class just trying to manage the situation/dogs and hoping to get out in one piece!

I often get students whose dogs are not suited for group class, but if that happens I refer them for private training (I used to do it myself, but no longer have the time).  Or, they get referred for a reactive dog class, if necessary.  Those classes can help some dogs a lot, but are still not for every dog.  I think the key is to figure out what the DOG really needs, rather than what you, as the human, want. 

spiritdogs

AgileGSD

spiritdogs

 

Why would it be considered wrong to hunt with a hunting dog?

Not that all hunting situations are bad, but I think that many rescues would find some of their funds drying up if they placed dogs in situations where they could be injured, subjected to electronic collars, or made to live outside. . That's the reality of life for many hunting dogs,

 

It's also the reality of life for many pet dogs...

 

Sadly, you are right...

 So why defend shelters/rescues having policies against placing hunting breeds in hunting homes? It's just one more example of how shelter policies (intended not to screen homes but to push someone's agenda) end up preventing dogs from finding homes.