At my wits end, need help

I'm just curious-- what do you feed your boy?  certain dog foods seem to create frenzied unfocused behavior in some dogs.

I am so happy that I am not the only one having those kinds of problems with my dog! You sound like you are having very similar problems that I am and have not found anything that helps.
 
I have a 7 month old siberian husky. Since we brought her home at 8 weeks old, we have been trying to get her to stop biting, scratching and jumping up and nothing has worked. It has gotten so bad that I am so frustrated that I don't even want to be around her sometimes. When I am home by myself with her, she is constantly biting/attacking at my arms, legs, jumping up and ripping my clothes. I can barely walk without her attacking me. Since day one we have enforced "no bite" or "ouch"  when she bites us and trying to distract her attention to a toy, we use bitter apple spray in her mouth when she bites, she gets a "time-out" when she attacks at my legs, we have always used "off" when she jumps up and walked the other way.
 
She knows how to sit, shake, fetch, and down and she does it everytime asked unless she is in her "attack mode". She only does this to me, not my husband, anyone else, and she only does it at home.
 
She was spayed at 5 1/2 months and that didn't calm her down. She follows some of the nothing is free stuff like sitting before getting a toy, treat, food, or going outside.
 
She is crate trained for when we are at work. She goes to doggie daycare every other week to interact with other dogs and release some energy. I can't take her for walks because she attackes my legs the whole time. We are trying to find a treadmill to train her on that to get rid of her energy.
 
We have tried a choke collar, high frequency vibration collar, water bottle, bitter apple, a trainer to come into our house to help, we even give her chamomile tea to help calm her down.
 
Nothing we have done has worked and I don't know what else to do, it seams as though all the suggestions I have gotten hasnt worked. I am just afraid that we have been trying for 5 months to get her to stop biting and I don't know what will happen if we dont get it under control and I am so frustrated and do not know what to do anymore, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

She is crate trained for when we are at work.  She goes to doggie daycare every other week to interact with other dogs and release some energy. I can't take her for walks because she attackes my legs the whole time. We are trying to find a treadmill to train her on that to get rid of her energy.

 
What do you do to excercise her on a daily basis?  I don't think daycare every other week is going to be enough to drain the energy that she is building up on a daily basis.  Puppies have a lot of energy.  It isn't fair to expect her to be calm if she has no release for her energy.  Is it possible for your husband to walk with her?

You may unwittingly have escalated her behavior with the use of the choke, and the "vibration" collar, and bitter apple.  The dog that perceives these things as aggression may choose to aggress back.  A dog that nips at you while walking might be best walked in a Halti or, better yet, a Gentle Leader headcollar.  A Gentle Leader will help you gently keep the dog's mouth closed.  Any positive reinforcement or clicker trainer in your area should be able to show you how to acclimate your dog to it, and how to train with it on.  I agree with the last poster that your dog needs exercise on a more constant basis, perhaps, but the nippiness is not solely a function of lack of exercise.  I suspect that this dog has gotten lots of attention for her antics, and that can be reinforcing all on its own.  Try ignoring her behavior and leaving the room if she nips - thus, she gets nothing.  A dog that gets no reward for the behavior will eventually stop - problem is that the humans often give up too soon, or they resort to a punishment (which the dog interprets either as aggression or an invitation to play).
I would really suggest that you give clicker training a try.  As a method, it is strictly hands off the dog, so you will not inadvertantly be rewarding her behavior with physical stimulation, aggression, or even attention.  The only time the dog gets a click/treat is when you are happy with the behavior.  Watch the videos here: [linkhttp://www.clickertrainusa.com]www.clickertrainusa.com[/link] and read over the free lessons here: [linkhttp://www.clickerlessons.com.%C2%A0]www.clickerlessons.com. [/link] There are many resources on our clicker training threads here, and for a list of clicker or positive trainers, visit these sites:
[linkhttp://www.clickertraining.com]www.clickertraining.com[/link]
[linkhttp://www.peaceablepaws.com]www.peaceablepaws.com[/link]
Lowering the amount of protein in her food might help, and you could consult a veterinary behaviorist if you think her problem is some form of brain dysfunction.  Some dogs do well on a medication called Clomicalm.  I always prefer to try training and behavior modification first, but would certainly consider medication as a last resort before surrendering a dog.  Some dogs that have thyroid imbalances exhibit aggression.  Google "Dr. Jean Dodds" and you will find her protocol for complete thyroid panel and where to send the sample for testing.

ORIGINAL: ProblemHusky

I am so happy that I am not the only one having those kinds of problems with my dog! You sound like you are having very similar problems that I am and have not found anything that helps.

I have a 7 month old siberian husky. Since we brought her home at 8 weeks old, we have been trying to get her to stop biting, scratching and jumping up and nothing has worked. It has gotten so bad that I am so frustrated that I don't even want to be around her sometimes. When I am home by myself with her, she is constantly biting/attacking at my arms, legs, jumping up and ripping my clothes. I can barely walk without her attacking me. Since day one we have enforced "no bite" or "ouch"  when she bites us and trying to distract her attention to a toy, we use bitter apple spray in her mouth when she bites, she gets a "time-out" when she attacks at my legs, we have always used "off" when she jumps up and walked the other way.

She knows how to sit, shake, fetch, and down and she does it everytime asked unless she is in her "attack mode". She only does this to me, not my husband, anyone else, and she only does it at home.

She was spayed at 5 1/2 months and that didn't calm her down. She follows some of the nothing is free stuff like sitting before getting a toy, treat, food, or going outside.

She is crate trained for when we are at work. She goes to doggie daycare every other week to interact with other dogs and release some energy. I can't take her for walks because she attackes my legs the whole time. We are trying to find a treadmill to train her on that to get rid of her energy.

We have tried a choke collar, high frequency vibration collar, water bottle, bitter apple, a trainer to come into our house to help, we even give her chamomile tea to help calm her down.

Nothing we have done has worked and I don't know what else to do, it seams as though all the suggestions I have gotten hasnt worked. I am just afraid that we have been trying for 5 months to get her to stop biting and I don't know what will happen if we dont get it under control and I am so frustrated and do not know what to do anymore, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

You are PRECISELY where I was a month or so ago! Read through this post...I know it's long, but the suggestions given here have ABSOLUTELY worked. He's still not 100% where I want him to be yet, but we're getting there. My "breakthrough moment" was when I realized that he DID want to be near me. I know that sounds silly, but that's been the key for max. Realizing that he wanted to hang out with me opened a whole other set of doors when it came to training. He will do ANYTHING to be with me...including behave himself! When he got all crazy and started biting, I'd just get up and leave after saying "no" or "ouch". It took quite a few times for him to get it, but he did. Now when I say "ouch", he backs off. It seemed totally silly to me that something as simple as leaving the room would cause him to behave...but it worked. He still gets a little hyper every now and then, but he's nowhere near like what he used to be.
I have another pic. He's getting too big for his chair. When he was a puppy, he could stretch out and be totally comfortable. Now he has to scrunch up to sit there. It's quite amusing watching him try to get up, because he stuffs himself down into the chair. I'd think it would be uncomfortable, but I guess he doesn't think so. Enjoy!

ORIGINAL: ProblemHusky
Since day one we have enforced "no bite" or "ouch"  when she bites us and trying to distract her attention to a toy, we use bitter apple spray in her mouth when she bites, she gets a "time-out" when she attacks at my legs, we have always used "off" when she jumps up and walked the other way.

 
If she thinks every time she bites you you are going to stick a chewie in her mouth it's not really going to discourage her to stop.  I do use this method on new pups but stop after a few days when I have done plenty to show them what they can bite on.  At that point I switch to saying "ouch!" and walking away - even leaving the room and closing the door for a minute or two, then ignoring the pup on my return until she is calm and therefore more able to play nicely.  I also like to reinforce calmness whenever possible.  Another thing I do is always have something the dog CAN chew on in my hand when I interact so I can stick it in her mouth to keep her teeth busy while I pet her - this prevents the biting behaviour and you simultaneously reward (petting, praise, attention) for chewing on the right thing.
 
"we use bitter apple spray in her mouth when she bites" - ????? That sounds like you're spraying bitter apple into her mouth as a punishment when she bites you!  I hope I have got that wrong because it is not how the bitter apple spray is meant to be used.  You put the spray on your hands or on items she likes to chew but isn't supposed to because the taste is meant to discourage her.  I really hope you aren't spraying it in her mouth and if so please stop!
 
I don't think you don't say how old she is so there is a possibility she may still be teething - try freezing her chews and toys to make them more appealing to her and help ease the discomfort in her gums.  Kongs are good mental and dental exercise for dogs and freezing them makes it harder to get the filling out.  Soaking and freezing chunks of veg (like apple or carrot but not potatoes) or rope toys or knotted wash rags also makes for good teething toys.
 
When you say she gets a "time out" what happens?  Does she get put in her crate, or in a "safe room", or do you leave the room for a minute?  Does she get a telling off?  Please don't ever use her crate as a punishment (although it is OK to put her in there calmly with a chew or toy to calm down if she is getting too hyper - no dragging, shoving, scolding or slamming the door though)  Don't scold her either - she is doing it for attention and telling her off would just be obliging her.
 
No bite, ouch, and off are all just meaningless words to her.  You may as well be saying Rhubarb, custard and curtains.  Initially when a pup 1st comes home, yelping (ouch) and moving away mimicks what a littermate would do if the pup bit too hard.  No bite doesn't mean anything and it's not something you need to teach a meaning for because the aim is that the dog won't ever need to be told not to bite because he will understand Teeth Never Touch Human Skin - Ever.  And when she jumps, don't say ANYTHING - not even off.  Again, this is attention seeking bhvr and by speaking to her, looking at her etc. you inadvertantly reinforce the bhvr - ie make it more likely it will happen again!  Try standing very still, folding your arms and tilting your head to look at the ceiling or over you shoulder away from her.  If that doesn't work, just move away and be resolute about not looking at or speaking to her until she is fully calm and able to respond well to a Sit.  This sets you up for success and reinforces her calm state of mind.
 
This dog needs mental and physical exercise and that means regular walks, controlled play and lots and lots of training.  A treadmill only provides some of the stimulation a dog needs physically, it is a very small part of the spectrum.  What's wrong with teaching retrieve games like Fetch or Hide and Seek?  Clicker training will tire the dog out wonderfully as well as improving her responsiveness towards you.  Fill a box with scrunched up newspaper and treats and toys and let her have a good rummage.  Get her some interactive toys to challenge her.  You need to challenge this dog and give her work to do.
 
If I were you I would implement NILIF religiously - make her do something for you for EVERYTHING she wants, be that having a lead put on, having a lead taken off, having a door opened, getting in the car, getting out of the car, being fed, being petted, having a toy thrown, being given a treat.....  I would also hand feed her for a couple of weeks so she has to work even harder for her meals - maybe feed her breakfast via a Kong or Busta Cube and her supper by hand.
 
Would just like to say a huge WELL DONE to baron for all the progress he's made - and looking back it's only been a few weeks since you originally posted.  If you can achieve that in a few weeks, just think what you can do in a few months or a year..... Imagine what Max will be like as a fully grown adult.... he will do you proud!

Tomorrow is the day when Max gets neutered. I am not looking forward to it, and if he knew what was coming, he probably wouldn't either. I didn't do this to baron, and he turned out perfect...he never roamed, he didn't mark his territory, he didn't hump people (well, he humped one person, but that was it, and they were an extended family member, so it was comical). Max hasn't marked anything inside the house, hasn't humped and doesn't roam, so I am sitting here thinking that maybe this isn't the greatest idea. I don't ever anticipate breeding max, and he won't be around any females who aren't spayed. Am I doing the wrong thing here?

I know the advantages...less aggression, longer life, happier dog, etc. I just really dislike doing something like that. I know he's a dog, and this is for his own good, but it feels WRONG. I know I wouldn't want that done to me!

Anyway, if there's anybody still awake, I'd like to hear your thoughts on it.
Thanks
-Scott

You're just nervous Scott.  You are doing a good thing for his health in the future.  And, he's gonna wake up and not have a clue they are gone.  He'll be back to his old self in just a couple of days. 

Hi baron-
I'm glad you seem to be making progress.  I think that your dog is probably just a good, big boy who has not had the type of training he should have gotten very young - it's so much harder to deal with 80-100 pounds than with 15 pounds. []
If he is food motivated, try clicker training.  Rotties may be in the working group, but they are drovers and herders, and quite intelligent.  They do well with hands-off training, and are often stars in the obedience ring.  Come on over to the clicker threads and hang out, even if you don't plan to do it - there's lots of solid info on operant conditioning and dog-friendly training.  Pay particular attention to Kim MacMillan's posts - she, unlike me, is not averse to long posts, and has a great way with words.  Also, take advice from mudpuppy, who also deals with a large breed and understands that it is not ok for the human to be dragged down the block.
Turid Ruugas has a neat little book called, "My Dog Pulls".  Grab a copy - no nonsense approach, but still dog friendly. 
Next, you need a reliable recall - get the DVD by Leslie Nelson, "Really Reliable Recall" and follow the steps.  What happened to you at grandma's would not have happened if you had a recall installed, and if you had taught the dog not to pull since puppy hood.  Pulling is one of the hardest things to train away - but, eureka, come when called is easy!!!!!  Honest. 

You might get a better response if you post this question in the Health section - there is an area there for Spaying/Neutering.  This is way off original topic and it might get a little bit confusing........
 
To answer your question: this op is NOT reversible.  If you feel that you may regret it afterwards DON'T do it - wait and give it more thought!  Ask your vet about alternatives to neutering - I think there is an injection available which mimicks the effects of neutering.... this would enable you to see what effect it has on the dog before taking the plunge.
 
If I were in your position I would WAIT until Max has reached full maturity.  I would wait until he is at least 2years old before doing this.  I think I am right in saying he is not yet a year old and still has some growing and filling out to do.  Early neutering has been linked to incorrect bone growth and I am sure you are aware of the bone and joint problems this breed is prone to.
 
I know most other people here support the neutering of any dog that is not to be used for breeding and a few years ago I thought the same..... but now I am not so sure and don't agree with automatically neutering an animal as a matter of course.  I know I am in the minority here so I'm just going to say that's ALL I'm going to say on that here because otherwise this will go waaaaaaaay off topic.

HI Baron
First let me say I feel for you!!  We had a Rottie, and Iknow exactly what you are talking about    (he passed away 2 years ago at 12 yrs old)
 
He was a very difficult dog.  Extremely loveable and a wonderful dog, just very stubborn(maybe a Rottie thing!!)      He chewed up a twin size mattress, put his head thru a door, pulled up the floor, you name it!!  I think with a dog as big and powerful as Rottie's are, you definately need to spend  $ on professional training.  My husband spent almost $800 on training Rudy.  The $ spent was well worth it.  He was absolutely wonderful when   our 2 kids were born, there was never 1 aggressive moment.  (we actually had a bassett hound that we had to get rid of b/c he was agressive towards the kids)
 
I would definately suggest seeking out a professional  trainer, you cant let a dog that size get unruly at this early age.  Our rottie was 175 pounds, and I cant imagine the trouble we would have had had he not had training.  everyone is going to have their opinions about what they think is right and wrong.  You know what is best for your dog, you have had experience with Rotties.  There is nothing wrong with a firm hand.
I wish you many years of happiness with Baron, I miss our Rottie terribly.
 
Jen  

Sorry, I mean many happy years w/ MAx!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

glad to see that you've made progress!!!!!
 
and i know it's a few days old, but i had to add that neutering a dog can't really be compared to neutering a human because we have something called "impulse control"[]

After a lengthy discussion with my vet about alternatives and whatnot, I went ahead and had max neutered. He was a bit groggy that evening, but was back to his normal, happy self the next day. He doesn't seem to know, or care what happened. His behavior hasn't changed much yet, but the vet said it wouldn't be like a light switch anyway. He's still doing extremely well with his training. He now automatically sits or lies down when he wants something, whereas he used to jump on me or paw at the door. He goes to the door and sits calmly until I get up to take him out. If I don't notice him, he'll let out a quick bark and then patiently waits for me to go to him.

Anyway, he's 14 days out from his surgery and he's out running like a madman all day again. I had to kind of keep him on a short leash for the first week so that he wouldn't open the wound, and he went a little stir crazy. He pretty much requires 7-10 hours outside, just running and being a puppy. I think that's to be expected of a rottie which is only a year old though. I know Baron was pretty active up until about age 3 or so, then he began to calm down and want to stay inside more. I do miss having a dog inside the house for most of the day, but it's not fair to keep Max inside. If I wanted a lazy dog, I wouldn't have chosen another rottie! The whole puppy thing has been a shock to my life though. Usually a good one now that he behaves himself.

The vet did say that Max seemed to be one of the most expressive dogs that they'd ever seen. I had noticed that max is very intelligent. He does have a lot of different little faces and movements that set him apart from any other dog I've had or known. Sometimes I almost think he understands the things I say! He watches a lot of television when he's inside. He'll watch animal planet for 15-20 minutes at a time if there's something that catches his eye, or his ears. One thing I have noticed about max's face is that if I say something that he doesn't know, he'll tilt his head to the side (which most other dogs do), but he almost appears to be raising his eyebrows (the brown patches above his eyes look like eyebrows) sometimes, or he'll close his mouth with only a piece of his tongue sticking out (quite funny-looking, I must say). He perks his ears sometimes, at other times, they're smoothed back along his head. He does make a lot of "faces" in response to different things. He also has dozens of sounds, from barks, to growls and grow-barks to whines.

His cleverness came shining through the other day. He had managed to get ahold of a hand towel, which had fallen out of my clean laundry pile when I was folding them. I took it away from him and put it in my chair. Several hours later, he came up and put his head on my lap...something he does quite often when he wants attention. I rubbed behind his ears and then scratched the top of his head and down on the front of his neck. I had to reach over and answer the phone, and he slipped his head off my lap and down beside my leg. As I wrote down some information, he slowly grabbed the towel, sliding it out from behind me ever so gently and then laid down and began sniffing it. He got a bit cocky and threw it up in the air, which is when I noticed that he again had the towel. I couldn't help but to laugh. This isn't the first time he's done such covert operations.

He showed his protective instinct the other day too. A tree limb fell on the roof of my porch and he heard it. He was sleeping at my feet and he instantly sprung into action, giving his most ferocious growl and bark as he ran toward the door. He looked back at me, then gave another couple of menacing growls and barks and we went outside to investigate. He was as anxious to get out there and see what happened as I was. He didn't seem to be scared even the slightest bit by the loud noise. I know this is all pretty natural for rotties, but I have also seen some which are rather timid. I'm glad max isn't going to be one of the timid dogs. I always loved the way that Baron dealt with potential problems, like security issues, and it appears that Max will be following suit. I initially thought Max was going to be dramatically different from Baron, but every day he gets more and more LIKE Baron, instead of the opposite. I know I shouldn't expect that to continue, and I consider myself very lucky that Max IS following the same path. I do think Max is going to be more of a prankster than Baron, but that's okay. Baron was very straightforward and work-oriented, since that what he was trained to do. I think Max may have the same drive to protect and work with me, but he'll also end up being a goofball, which isn't a bad thing. A little good-natured fun never hurt anyone.

I am no longer at my wits end. A whole new life with Max has been laid out before my eyes, and it looks like it will be spectacular. I think my original problem was lack of patience and vision with Max. It had been a long time since I had dealt with a puppy and I really wasn't prepared for Max's high-energy nature. Now that he's calming down a bit, and beginning to listen, I feel so bad for doubting him. Every day he proves to me that he is both capable of and willing to be an amazing companion. His behavior is a night-and-day difference from where it was when I started this thread only a short time ago. This would not have been possible without all the help and encouragement that I received here. I hesitate to think what my life would be like if I hadn't decided to make that first post. I know that both Max and I owe you all the most profound debt of gratitude.

As always, I'll continue to post updates to this thread, to let everyone know how max is doing, since if it wasn't for this thread, he may not be with me right now. There is a lot of excellent information in this thread, so I'd like to keep it alive for as long as possible. Hopefully it'll be able to help others just as it helped me. Max's training isn't done...not even close. However, the building blocks for having a great puppy are written throughout this thread. I'll also post any further revelations with training, so that others can learn from my mistakes. If it helps even one other person, then it's worth it to me.

Again, thanks to all of you.
-Scott

That warms my heart!