Hyper dog TOO people friendly! Help!

    • Silver

    Hyper dog TOO people friendly! Help!

     I have a 10 lb mutt (Pom/Chi/Pug) who is almost 2 years old.  Yoji is a great little guy, but I'm having issues with him when I take him out in public.  From the time he was a young pup to now, people have been squeaking at him.  You know what I mean..."Oh!  What a cute little doggy!  You are so adorable!" in a high, squeaky voice.  He's naturally outgoing and friendly, and this just makes him spontaneously combust!  Now, as soon as he sees someone new or old, he hits the end of the leash straining and whining in a desire to run to them and leap into their arms and be lavished with love.  Should he be allowed to greet them, after he sits still for a moment, he jumps compulsively.  He's a bouncer anyway when excited. I've tried re-directing him, but either the treat isn't fun enough or he just becomes so excited about treats that it defeats the purpose.

    He has TONS of energy, but he also is given tons of outlets for it.  I jog with him in the mornings at least four days a week, take him hiking on non-jogging days (or sometimes ON jogging days as well), take him swimming sometimes multiple days a weeks in addition to his regular work out, and I've even biked with him semi-regularly.  He also has regular play time with my other dogs.  He also does agility.

    I started him with clicker training, but had issues with it.  He was so obsessed with the food reward that I had to phase it out almost immediately (literally, by the second day).  Ditto with praise rewards.  The clicker alone is a great reward for him, but any praise (food, verbal, clicker) makes him almost overwhelmingly excited, which leads to bouncing.  He also started throwing behaviors at me after the first ten minutes of his clicker training and would go through any behavior he could think of (before he had even really learned more than 'down';) at light speed.  He's REALLY smart.  I mean a doggy genius.  The problem is curbing his enthusiasm just a little. He only has two speeds: sleep and warp.

    On a side note, he does the agility without any reinforcement aside from the fun of the equipment itself now.  He got away from me one time and did the entire course by himself (with repeats of his favorite equipment) like a kid at a playground before I could stop him.  I cannot praise him.  Just saying, "Good," in a normal tone is enough to make him start celebrating.  I just tell him what to do.  This doesn't work outside of the agility course though.

    Also, if anyone has suggestions of how to deal with squeaky people, I'd appreciate it.  I've even thought of making him a little t-shirt that says, "Dog In Training: Please Don't Speak to or Touch!" but I doubt it would work.

      

    • Gold Top Dog

    A reward is what the dog wants.  It's easier when it's treats or praise but unfortunately we can't dictate that to the dog.  Yoji has been reinforced in the behavior you don't want many, many times.  The way I would deal with this is to never, ever allow any interaction with a person you encounter until he is completely calm.  The second he starts to get excited, turn and walk the other direction.  Use a marker word to let him know he blew it by getting ramped up.  I know it will be a PITA.  Be sure and walk in the other direction until he has completely calmed before you turn back.  This sort of exercise is best done in a set up situation. Get someone to walk toward you and Yoji but ask your helper to not make eye contact with him and to do nothing to get him excited.   You have to be diligent with this because every time you let him get the reward of being petted or even talked to in a squeaky voice when he is excited, he has again been rewarded for the behavior you don't want.

    Dogs do what works and for Yoji getting excited, jumping, etc has worked in the past.  Teach him that he must have four on the floor before he gets any sort of attention.  Increase the time he is able to sit calmly.  Allowing him to be petted after sitting momentarily just won't work.  When he does progress enough to gain his reward, keep the encounter brief and unexciting.  If it helps, imagine that he's a 100 lb dog with razor sharp nails that you are training for therapy work in a nursing home full of frail, elderly people.

    I would of course completely control all outings with him until you have made some progress.  You can't expect strangers to resist that sweet face. :)   While he is learning, just tell anyone approaching who looks like they may start squeaking at him "he's in training, we can't greet you". Don't worry about being rude.  It's better to offend some strangers than to have a dog who can't be petted because he can't control his excitement. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    JackieG

    I would of course completely control all outings with him until you have made some progress.  You can't expect strangers to resist that sweet face. :)   While he is learning, just tell anyone approaching who looks like they may start squeaking at him "he's in training, we can't greet you". Don't worry about being rude.  It's better to offend some strangers than to have a dog who can't be petted because he can't control his excitement. 

     

    I agree 100% with this statment. I have a JRT who SCREAMS everytime she sees people. She's friendly and people used to encourage it to the point where I couldn't control her any more.   I started to stop Sandy about 10 feet away from some one who wanted to greet her, and state that she's in training and is not allowed to jump/scream/pull ect.. So leave her alone if you can't follow my rules. It works, and don't worry about seeming rude, some people can't accept the fact that good dog people want a well behaved dog.

    Good luck!

    And for what it's worth, Sandy now turns to face me when ever she sees another person. Granted she still lets out a little scream but we're working on it.

    • Silver

     Good advice!  I love taking them places with me, but you are right that I need to master this in a controlled environment first.  I tend to get pounced in Petco with him.  People come around the edge of an aisle, see him, and squeal!  Definitely have to keep him away from that for awhile.  That can be his final test.

     I have one friend that this will end up as a big argument with, unfortunately (it has in the past).  I tell her not to greet him, to ignore him, and especially not to squeak at him, and she ignores me!  She thinks I'm being "mean" and ridiculous.  I've told her repeatedly that I want to compete with him and to eventually do his CGC test and she is making it impossible!  I hoped, seeing as she is a competitor in the horse world, that she would understand this and chill out, but no.  Her dogs are all wild and ill-mannered, and she thinks this is how they should be!  I don't know why she won't accept my rules for him...it almost seems like it's her way of being controlling.  Maybe I'll just have to keep him away from her for now.  My family and I are all on the same page though: he doesn't get touched unless he is calm.

     He actually already has a marker word for the wrong behavior.  "Wrong" actually.  I don't think he really notices when he goes into hyper-mode.  He fixates. 

    • Gold Top Dog

     As for your friend, I'd just take the dog and walk away from her. If she won't listen, she doesn't get to pet the puppy. Lol. I've got a friend like that.It's good that you're family is willing to listen. That helps and he will start to generalize if you keep up on it.

    You're gonna have to break his focus BEFORE he goes in to the fixate mode so you'll have to learn his body lanuage since he's giving signs before he gets over the top. It's hard and frusturating but it does pay off.  Smile

    Edit: If you want, You can PM me if you want to vent or whatever. I don't have the net at home but I'm usually on the site once a day when I'm not working. Smile

    • Silver

    oranges81

     As for your friend, I'd just take the dog and walk away from her. If she won't listen, she doesn't get to pet the puppy. Lol. I've got a friend like that.It's good that you're family is willing to listen. That helps and he will start to generalize if you keep up on it.

    You're gonna have to break his focus BEFORE he goes in to the fixate mode so you'll have to learn his body lanuage since he's giving signs before he gets over the top. It's hard and frusturating but it does pay off.  Smile

    Edit: If you want, You can PM me if you want to vent or whatever. I don't have the net at home but I'm usually on the site once a day when I'm not working. Smile

     

     

    You're right!  I think I'll limit his interaction with her altogether for a while, and start back with her once we've made some progress.  I think I'm having a much harder time with him just because he is so small!  I've never had an issue training my other pups, even the dog aggressive one, but for some reason Yoji gives me a hard time.  I think it's because he is so low to the ground.  Every reaction is faster, and I have to be faster.  I'm sure the main reason he jumps is because of his size.  He wants to get to your level faster than you can bend down to him.

     Thanks for the venting offer!  I'm sure I'll take you up on it!  Smile

    • Gold Top Dog

     

    razujikan
    Now, as soon as he sees someone new or old, he hits the end of the leash straining and whining in a desire to run to them and leap into their arms and be lavished with love. 

     

    What I would do in this scenario is just stop, turn around and walk the other way.  I can understand completely why food and toys are not working, because in this scenario, they are not a "reward".  Lesson for the day:  A reward is what the dog WANTS.  So, make interaction with people the "reward".  

    Have you ever made him sit for his dinner - you know, ask for the sit and slowly lower the bowl.  If his butt comes up, so does the bowl.  The dog quickly learns to keep his little behind glued to the floor because it's the way to get what he wants.  Make sense?

    You can also do the same with doors.  Have the dog sit at the door and open it just a crack.  If he gets up, close it again.  The way to get what you want is to sit.

    This is basically, NILIF.  Nothing In Life Is Free.  Essentially, "do something for me and I'll do something for you".  It's a simple way to gain the dog's co-operation, particularly at times when he wants something so bad he is struggling to remain calm... without having to carry food rewards round with you all the time Smile  It's a good idea to do NILIF at home, in as many areas as possible, so that he generalises: "I get what I want if I sit/lie down calmly".  This makes your work out and about a lot easier.

    You can do the same with greetings.  If the dog is CALM - you move closer and work up to being petted.  If the dog acts like a nut, you move away.  It helps if you ignore the dog at home when he is acting bonkers, and only pet him if he restrains himself.  It's the same principal... you are working out what the dog wants and showing him that he only gets it when he behaves in a way that is appropriate.  In our house, no dog is petted unless we have "four on the floor".  At first, we make it easy on a new dog by teaching a good "down" (by that I mean you say DOWN and the dog takes extreme joy in slamming to the floor very very fast!) and sitting on the floor WITH them. 

    (A down is easier to maintain than a sit..... Ask Callie about Tink and her "hoppins up in the butt" Big Smile)

    At first, you may find that you are doing a lot of "walking away from new people" and not finding opportunities to reward what you like.  Getting a friend to help you would be one way round it.... this way you can do all the walking back and to and pausing and encouraging calmness etc. whilethe other person understands what you are trying to do and waits patiently... and who will co-operate and not make it harder for the poor dog by winding them up!

    Another way to tackle the same issue would be to tether the dog and walk away.  Turn around and walk BACK again, but only keep moving forward if the dog is behaving calmly.  For example, the dog may start jumping up or whining or straining at the leash.  Start small!  Don't expect  everything all at once... Rome was not built in a day.  At first, you may simply wait for a moment of quiet, or for those feet to be on the ground, or for the lead to be slack.  Pick one thing to work on at a time and you will reach your goal MUCH faster than if you try to tackle everything all at once!

     

    razujikan
    I started him with clicker training, but had issues with it.  He was so obsessed with the food reward that I had to phase it out almost immediately (literally, by the second day).

    Not sure I am understanding this right - you mean you now click, but don't follow with a reward?  If so, it's incorrect and the click will, in time, lose efficacy and lose any meaning to the dog.  Every click must be followed by a treat.  Click, treat.  Click, treat.  Click, treat.  The two must be paired together irrevocably in the dog's mind, which means that the click  simply CANNOT HAPPEN sans-treat.  (The treat does not HAVE to be food, but it must be something at least moderately desirable for the dog.)

    razujikan
    Also, if anyone has suggestions of how to deal with squeaky people, I'd appreciate it.  I've even thought of making him a little t-shirt that says, "Dog In Training: Please Don't Speak to or Touch!" but I doubt it would work.

     

    This is exactly whatI was going to suggest, and I think it would work very well.... but don't put "in training", or some clever clogs people will be convinced they can help you with that.  Confused  Just put "I am working.  Please don't distract me." in bold letters, plain colours, nothing cutesy Smile

    A simpler option would be: train him to wear a basket muzzle.  This is easy, just stick a tiny morsel of food through the end so he sticks his nose in.  Or smear a very small amount of peanut butter/soft cheese/liverwurst on the inside so he sticks his nose in and lick it off.  Put the muzzle on when you take him out and about.  Most people avoid interaction with a dog wearing a muzzle.

    • Gold Top Dog

    oranges81
    If she won't listen, she doesn't get to pet the puppy.

     

    Oh yeah, and NILIF works on PEOPLE too!  You do just have to be firm with people, and if they WILL NOT LISTEN, remove the dog so that the dog cannot "practise" the bad habit.  Every time they do it wrong, it becomes more likely they will do it wrong next time.  It becomes a habit more and more deeply ingrained, like a stream eroding a path down a mountain.  You can be firm while still being polite Big Smile

    • Gold Top Dog

     Chuffy as always your ideas are good. Smile

    The t-shirt idea is a good one but yeah, don't put "In training" cuz you know those people who "have owned dogs for years and THIS always works" will give their 2 cents in.  I put a t-shirt on Maze when I was working on her dog agression. It works and you cover your butt if the people don't listen. Lol