Sneaking away to urinate

I would go back to potty training 101.  Less freedom in the house, under constant supervision, no more access to the room where she pees.  When going out I would start her on a regular leash so she doesn't get fun and games or the 30' line until she does her business, at which point you praise and reward her, then put her on the longer line to play (don't take her right back in b/c that's no reward for peeing in the right spot).

Sometimes when dogs urinate in a room where no one can see them it's because they were punished for an accident.  Since she's a rescue, this could have happened at some point in her housetraining.  Thus in her mind, peeing in front of people is hazardous and scary and best done secretly.

Do you praise her when when she does her business outside?  Whenver a housebreaking issue pops up I always recommend that you start from scratch as though she were a puppy just being trained.  No scolding for accidents, high praise and treats when she eliminates in the proper area.  This means you must accompany her every time outside and carry treats on your walks.  No more tying her out and assuming she went because you miss the chance to praise her.  Hold your praise until she has finished pottying but the instant she stops, praise and treat!

This is assuming it's behavioral and not a medical issue.  I would be a little worried about the wheezing myself. What is her age?

 I've always assumed it was something like that, being mistreated and wanting to not be scolded for urinating.  I was told she was abused in some capacity by the person at the rescue, to what degree i'm not sure.

 I've definitely praised her when going outside and have been very consistant with it.  I actually take her for more walks than I do tying her outside, I'm always outside with her when she's tied up anyway since its not my property and I don't want her yapping at people without me being around.  I think thats whats brought me to asking people questions on an internet forum, I've just been so frustrated because I can't seem to make a difference in her doing it.  The only thing that has worked is to keep her in a room with me at all times and not let her roam away for any reason.

 The vet told me she's healthy and the wheezing thing although odd never happens unless she's lying flat on the ground.  Maybe I should seek an opinion from another vet?  The rescue was unsure of her age but she appears to be at least fairly old, she has grey hair around her muzzle and some grey on her coat.  The vet was pretty vague about it and said somewhere around 5-6.

 Overall my main frustration is the fact that I take her out many many times throughout the day, at least 3 walks a day.  Once in the very early morning, probably 5-6am, another walk around 10am-12pm and then she gets to be tied up for a bit later on in the day and then another walk around 6pm and then a short walk before bed.  Always at the very least 3 walks.  Am I just way off base with thinking that taking her out that much even makes a difference?

  I think you have to stop the cycle and never give her the opportunity to go anywhere other than outside.  If you leave the room and don't want to take her with you, put her in a crate.   This should eventually extinguish the behavior.  You can tie her leash to your belt and keep her in sight at all times.  I don't think it's because you aren't allowing her ample opportunity, she has just become used to going in another room, out of sight and as long as the option is available, she figures, why not?  Old habits die hard in dogs and she may have been using pee pads inside for years or never been properly housetrained.  Happens with many dogs, especially small ones.

 It is possible that she has developed a UTI since she saw the Vet.  I would want to rule that out first before anything.  If you are certain it's not medical then I think you have to treat her like what she is, a dog who is not trustworthy in the house and must be constantly supervised and retrained.  Good luck with her, she'll get it.  What's her name and your Chi?

JackieG

  I think you have to stop the cycle and never give her the opportunity to go anywhere other than outside.  If you leave the room and don't want to take her with you, put her in a crate.   This should eventually extinguish the behavior.  You can tie her leash to your belt and keep her in sight at all times.  I don't think it's because you aren't allowing her ample opportunity, she has just become used to going in another room, out of sight and as long as the option is available, she figures, why not?  Old habits die hard in dogs and she may have been using pee pads inside for years or never been properly housetrained.  Happens with many dogs, especially small ones.

 It is possible that she has developed a UTI since she saw the Vet.  I would want to rule that out first before anything.  If you are certain it's not medical then I think you have to treat her like what she is, a dog who is not trustworthy in the house and must be constantly supervised and retrained.  Good luck with her, she'll get it.  What's her name and your Chi?

Absolutely everything Jackie has said -- also let me maybe "restate" somethign for you.

Dogs are *very* immediate.  So the *instant* the dog goes 'secretly' and wets, IMMEDIATELY that reinforces that it's ok to do.  Why?  Becauise she did NOT get scolded **at that moment**.  (and once "scolded" that becomes HER goal -- to *not* get scolded while going)

For a dog, their waste is something completely **DIFFERENT** than the **ACT** of going.  Their waste is ... in essence them.  -- that makr, whether it is liquid or solid literally defines them as a "dog".  It's marked, it's mine.   And when a human points at an 'accident' and says "No" or "bad" -- does the dog equate the pile or wet spot with GOING??  no.  They equate it with **themselves** -- literally to them, you just said 'I don't like YOU.

It never even occurs to them that what you DON'T like is **where** they put it..

So, try this -- first off -- everything Jackie said -- just don't give the dog the )opportunity** to screw up.  And EVENTUALLY -- the dog will have to "go" while with you outside just out of sheer pressure.  Being able to praise for going *outside* is huge -- but in particular, being able to praise at the moment the dog goes is huge. 

For some dogs with this problem giving them a long long line outside and carrying a mirror with you so you can give the dog the illusion of privacy but secretly watch them with a handheld mirror to be able to say **at the moment they go** GOOD girl!!.  And then do something special.

But generally you have to keep times outside SHORT -- incredibly terribly completely **brief** -- because if you are on a long "walk" then the dog just happens to 'go' well that's fine.  But the dog doesn't pick up on the concept of "wait until you are OUTside".  That has to happen because something in the dog's behavior told you it needed to go "out" -- you pick up the leash and RACE keeping the time outside VERY brief.  If the dog doesn't go in a minute or two -- go right back inside. 

Frankly that's frustrating for the human who winds up spending days of doing nothing but going in and out and in and out ... BUT it is teaching the dog.  Because the *tough* concept here is "out" vs "in".  Because for so long the dog has self-rewarded by going secretly.  And you gotta get that idea across that you don't want him to go **in** at all.  Not just out of your sight -- but NO **inside**. 

However -- when the inevitable happens and the dog eliminates inside -- try this.  Put the dog somewhere out of sight - in another room.  Then go and soak up the majority of the wetness or poop and carry that paper towel OUTSIDE.  Lay it down right where you'd prefer the dog to go.  Now this can be tough if you rent -- but if you assure the landlord or office that you're just refinining some housetraining and you WILL dispose of it later usually it will be ok. 

Carry that paper out and lay it where you want them to go.  THEN go back in and get the dog ON leash, and walk right past the "scene of the crime" and just point and say 'Not here' (no big deal, not a punishment, just an acknowledgment that wasn't *right*) and walk briskly TO the paper and say "Here!"

Yeah, she'll know it's HERS.  Hmmm, you put it here?  Then, don't make a big deal out of it just go back inside.  Literally you are simply showing her you would rather it be HERE than ... THERE!

It takes repeation of that -- and next time you go out take her there to see yep, that's where you want it. 

The tricky thing with a dog who had bad associations previously is to extinguish the "if I go in FRONT of a human I'm in trouble" thing -- If you see them have an accident inside you move it outside.  But then renew your vigorous attempts to make sure the dog doesn't have *time* to screw up inside.  It may be months and months before you trust them to allow them free reignh of the house.  Just because it's far more than just whether they will destroy something .. but just the fact of doing it ONCE when you don't see it?  That can destroy months of re-programming because they did it and got away with it -- the fact that you found it later and "had a problem with it" -- nope, as far as the dog is concerned that has NOTHING to do with "where" the waste was found.  It immediately gets "personal".  And when you point to an accident and indicate you don't like it -- they have not one clue that your problem is with "where" -- they think you are simply objecting to THEM.

 I'm sure you don't want to hear this, but the ex and I had a min pin for 5 years, he peed in the house everyday. Didn't even hide. We did everything too.I believe shamrockmommy has a min pin  and he is also this way.

 Thank you to all that responded.  You've given me some great advice and something to work towards.  I think the most frustrating part for me is that I raised a boston terrier mix from puppy to adult that ended up being the easiest dog to take care and just seems to never have any problems and that happened to be my first dog.  In an odd way, it almost sucks that she was so good because I never had to try all that hard.

 To the person that asked about the dogs names, the min pin is Lucille or Lucy for short and the chi is Buster.  I'm not sure if anybody watches arrested development, tv show that got cancelled years ago but thats where those names come from.

 Again, thank you all.  I don't have any doubts that the problems can be fixed, I just need some training myself.

Ramble

I don't have any doubts that the problems can be fixed, I just need some training myself.

You said it ALL right there!!  Good for you!

 I don't think you are taking her out OFTEN enough.  Sounds like she is getting plenty of outdoor time, which for a HOUSETRAINED dog would be more than enough.  But she needs shorter FREQUENT wee-breaks, IMO

I would be taking her out every hour, honestly.  Just till she has got the idea.  Also anytime she looks suspicious - maybe she is restless, pacing or whining or sniffing the floor a little.... get her oustide!  ALSO - any time she has just woken up from a nap, or had something to eat or drink and after long periods of chewing or playing.  These things stimulate dogs to eliminate.  That is a LOT of trips outside!  A lot more than she is currently getting.  I think it would make A LOT of difference.  Excitement, anxiety and exercise also "get things moving", so you could try keeping her calm and sedate indoors too... judicious use of a crate or belt-tether would help with that.  Also, encouraging SOME play and running about outside would speed things along - as long as even BETTER stuff happens after she has "been".

She needs 100% supervision for now - again a crate or belt-tether would be ideal.  Never let her out of your sight, unless she is confined to a dog proof, easily cleaned area.  A crate is ideal when you can't WATCH her for short periods, but make sure she has LOTS of chance to eliminate before being put inside it.

Seriously, you need a word that tells her "I expect you to go now."  It helps SO MUCH.  We use "go squat".  I tell you, it's handy when you are running late, or when it's raining

About the reward schedule: WHAT does she get for getting it right?  What is her absolute FAVOURITE treat of all time?  Ideally, you need to use THAT for good-potty, and ONLY good-potty.  Max loves liver brownies and once he knew there was only one way to get 'em, my but didn't he put the effort in to get his hairy little butt outside any time Nature called

So this is what I do with a new dog in my house (especially puppies, but I treat ANY new dog as not-100%-housetrained in the beginning): 

• I watch them constantly, and confine them safely when supervision is not possible. 
• I take them outside OFTEN, especially at the key times mentioned. 
• The lead stays on while we are out there and we walk about a bit and wait for him to perform. 
• AS he is going, I say "Go squat" in a neutral tone (I don't want to interrupt the flow). After doing this consistently for a few days, it can be used as a reminder, but I still take care to only say it once.
  
• The second he finishes I step up and pop a SUPER TASTY treat in his mouth.  This bit is important - it really MUST be within a second or so, so that the connection is made.  And you must go TO them to deliver it - otherwise they could think they are getting a treat for coming to you, or following you to the house or whatever.  Not for actually peeing. 
• If I have a happy, bouncy dog I "throw a party" at this point.  (The neighbours think I have lost it).  If I have a slightly nervous dog, I just give lots of quiet, warm praise - overdoing it can make this sort of dog even more neurotic about it! 
• If possible, I then take them for a walk.  Walks only happen post-pee/poo at our house by the way.  A walk is a FANTASTIC reward for most dogs, so it really drums the message home that pee+outside=GOODSTUFF.  It also means I don;t usually have to carry bags of poo around with me.  If a walk is not possible, then I do whatever the dog wants to do.  If I have a dog that like to romp outdoors, I allow them some freedom and play their favourite game.  If I have a dog that just wants to get indoors in the warm out of the rain, we go inside straight away.