Do dogs ask "Why"?

Wow.  That was interesting as hell. And made total sense.

"Why" is a little broad and covers a range of complexity I think. I would say that dogs can understand cause and effect, so that they can comprehend "why did kibble come out of my buster cube?" - "because I moved it with my nose." A slightly higher level of complexity might be "why is my owner putting my leash on?" - "because we're going for a walk." Questions like "why won't my owner play fetch" or "why is she on the couch" are questions that require a sense of self and empathy, recognizing the owner is a separate being with her own mind & emotions, and then attempting to imagine what her thoughts may be... that I'd say is probably too complex for a dog though maybe in 50 yrs we'll know differently. [] You can take why right up to "why do we exist" which is definitely far more abstraction than I believe dogs are capable of.
 
McConnell's book For the Love of a Dog is a really great exploration of dogs' minds and their abilities for abstract thought.

Dogs do that head twist, I am led to understand by a physiological expert, because they don't have a macula (a part of the eye) and see best to one side and the other. Head twisting is "getting a second opinion". So as far as getting the answer to a question, that question would be "What?" rather than "Why?"

Very interesting!
 

McConnell's book For the Love of a Dog is a really great exploration of dogs' minds and their abilities for abstract thought.

I will have to get that book....
 
 
So what about the other primates? Are we the only species with the ability to make thoughts like "why"?

ORIGINAL: agilebasenji

Ask a badsenji to do something he doesn't want to do and he will ask "Why?"

Or say "I don't wanna."

That's a typical Xerxes response!

Becca your post makes total sense and is very well put.  Thanks!!!!

I do think some breeds/types/individuals are more prone to asking Why?  But not "Why am I left alone in the day" or "Why do you sit around looking at a box all evening?"  I think it's more "Why should I?"  And, very often, "Why shouldn't I?"  I think the training we do is to answer those questions for him.

I agree that it depends on what you mean by "why". The head tilt is indicating a desire to gain more information, e.g. "What was that sound?" which could just as easily be phrased "Why did that sound come from that flashing box up on the wall?" So I guess my answer is that dogs do have the capability to possess a desire or a need or whatever to gain more information about things. Do they ponder the meaning of life? I honestly don't know. I am reminded of that parrot we discussed a few days ago, and think that animal intelligence is something we humans still don't understand.

I don't believe we're the only why-beings. I've read oodles of material on elephants, pigs, higher sea mammals, and primates that makes me think we have a lot in common in our mental abiities. The octopus has a fascinating yet alien mind - ditto some birds.

What we are talking about is linear thought - being able to hold one concept in mind long enough to create a substantive relationship to a new thought. I just heard Patricia McConnell talking about elephants and mirrors. There was one elephant that was able to understand that a) the elephant in the mirror is the same as me (many elephants seemed to grasp this) b) that elephant doesn't normally have a dot on her forehead c) there is a dot on that elephant's forehead NOW d) to explore that dot, I need to raise my trunk and touch my forehead (rather than the forehead of the reflection she could see).

The object of the experiment was to see whether elephants were capable of demonstrating a sense of self, but it also shows how linear thought works on a very basic level. We'd look in a mirror and say "Why is there a dot on my forehead?" but I strongly doubt the elephant was thinking that - or she'd get quite agitated. Animals dislike the unknown very much.

But I think that at some point beings like the elephant would quietly make a connection with the odd occurance of the dot appearing on her forehead. I'm of the opinion that you could do something similiarly benign, alien, and random to a dog gazillion times in a row and the dog would never feel the urge to "explain" it.

ORIGINAL: saveastray2day

animal intelligence is something we humans still don't understand.

 
I agree with that sentiment whole heartedly.... this might be a bit OT but theres a great book on this subject by Temple Grandin, its called Animals in Translation.  Theres loads of stuff in there about animal intelligence and language in animals.
 
In reply to brookcove.... I was also completely fascinated by the elephants/mirrors thing.  We humans can be arrogant to say the least in assuming we are the only species that is truly self aware.

In reply to brookcove.... I was also completely fascinated by the elephants/mirrors thing. We humans can be arrogant to say the least in assuming we are the only species that is truly self aware.

 
I remember reading that story too, and it really baffled me. At first I thought, how odd - a mirror is a human invention and yet this elephant figured it out. But then I realized it really isn't - a reflection in a waterpool is the same idea.
 
I've wondered a few times if Scout gets what's going on in the mirror. She clearly must not think it is another dog, because she'd be much more excited if that was the case. But she does pay attention to the reflection... it must be so confusing for them - the appearance of a dog, but no scent.

ORIGINAL: brookcove

I don't believe we're the only why-beings. I've read oodles of material on elephants, pigs, higher sea mammals, and primates that makes me think we have a lot in common in our mental abiities. The octopus has a fascinating yet alien mind - ditto some birds.

What we are talking about is linear thought - being able to hold one concept in mind long enough to create a substantive relationship to a new thought. I just heard Patricia McConnell talking about elephants and mirrors. There was one elephant that was able to understand that a) the elephant in the mirror is the same as me (many elephants seemed to grasp this) b) that elephant doesn't normally have a dot on her forehead c) there is a dot on that elephant's forehead NOW d) to explore that dot, I need to raise my trunk and touch my forehead (rather than the forehead of the reflection she could see).

The object of the experiment was to see whether elephants were capable of demonstrating a sense of self, but it also shows how linear thought works on a very basic level. We'd look in a mirror and say "Why is there a dot on my forehead?" but I strongly doubt the elephant was thinking that - or she'd get quite agitated. Animals dislike the unknown very much.

But I think that at some point beings like the elephant would quietly make a connection with the odd occurance of the dot appearing on her forehead. I'm of the opinion that you could do something similiarly benign, alien, and random to a dog gazillion times in a row and the dog would never feel the urge to "explain" it.

Damn that is a good point, now i dont know what to think hehe [&:]

Brookcove, your responses on this thread are fascinating and well-written!  Do you study animal behaviour?
 
I've love to learn more.  Any book recommendations?

Well, I've always had an amatuer love affair with animal behavior material but this field has burgeoned delightfully in the last fifteen years or so - I've got a lot of reading to do still. I also have a good friend who is involved with a crossover animal/human psychology project at SF State.

Patricia McConnell is my hero because she's a BC person too. [] I can relate to her communication style very easily also. I have some personal ties to Karen Overall and Nicholas Dodman also through my volunteer work rehabbing troubled dogs. I don't agree with everything Temple Grandin asserts in her work but I really liked and could identify with Animals in Translation, since my younger brother is autistic.

I also liked When Elephants Weep: The Emotional Lives of Animals by Jeffrey Moussaieff Masson, Susan McCarthy, Susan McCarthy oldie but goodie for anecdotal food for thought. The main author of this book has a newer book on farm animals I have on my wish list.

What you choose to read depends on your goals and what style of communication you prefer. The books written by the top behaviorists can be VERY dry but it's good to try to get a hold of at least one each from a wide range of theorists. After that, just check out what interests you most - whether it's applied theory, or the spiritual side, or pure science, or a particular author or direction of study (emotions, learning theory, ect).

Thank you for the compliment on my writing style. It's nice to know my technical writing skills haven't completely gone to pot, lol.