Overly submissive and fear

    • Gold Top Dog

    Overly submissive and fear

    I will write a quick history of Bear. She is a heinz 57 that we picked up when she was 4 months old. She was hungry, flea infested, a broken tail, and completely terrified of anything new, noisy, or quick, or loud, or etc. I moved her in the house with Kota, our Rottweiler. She did pretty well. We had a fenced in yeard in the back and she tore up anything she could find if left unsupervised outside. We moved 7 years ago and that stopped, oddly enough. She had made improvements with her fear issues, but not too much. I tried keeping her in the house at this house we live in now, but it didn't go well. Whenever something scared her, which was often, she would pee on the floor. Kota started reacting to her crying out and cowering, and it got dangerous for her. I put her outside with the other 2 dogs who lived there already with my husband's ex-wife who had moved out when we bought her out of the house. The beagle had died a few years back, so it is just her and Scarlett outside yet.

    She did good outside, and even seemed to "blossom" somewhat out from under the influence of Kota's dominant personality. Over the years we have seen her become more and more open. We had fenced the yard, and she loved the freedom of the couple acres she had to run around, and loved going to the barn with us, which was cut off from the rest of the yard. In the month since Kota passed away, she has come out a little bit more, even. I have been trying to work with her more on obedience. She will recall pretty well, but she has some strange habits that I am trying to address.

    When you call her, she will come and sit directly in front of you and be attentive. I get down on her level a lot of times to praise her, and she will either sit still for a minute and then take off as fast as she can for the basement when I "release" her or she will roll over and be submissive. I have tried every which way to get her to stay with me after I stand up, but she just won't do it. it is the same if I am sitting and she comes up for attention. She kind of enjoys herself for awhile, then "loads" while she is being petted, then takes off. She really enjoys the love, and will lay her head on you, but just can't hold still when it is done. You cannot recall her from this run for the basement. If somehting scares her, she will not recall from that run either.

    I am also teaching her down. She sits excellent, doesn't stay. That will be next. WHenever I give her the down cue, she usually first tries shaking to see if that is what i want, but when she does try down, she immediatly rolls unto her back. I can get her to roll back over, but then we have passed over that comfort line and she is ready to run again.

    I have also been trying her with short periods of time in the house. She is ok if it is quiet or you are sititing quietly petting her. I tried doing the dishes the other day and she was just on edge with the noises. She starts to run around and runs back and forth to the basement door until I let her back out. I have also tried doing little short training sessions with her, but she can't seem to concentrate as well as when we are outside.

    neither of the dogs we still have will play at all. Bear has never played. the quick movements scare her, and i tried some quiet playing with her in the house, but she just "wigs" out and runs back and forth to the basement door.

    i was hoping someone may have a little bit of insight into this, a way to work with such a fearful dog. She doesn't show any signs of aggression, unless you are a mole or a small animal she can chase and catch. Julie

    • Gold Top Dog

    I would definitely try clicker training with this dog.  She needs a little empowerment in her life.  However, you may need to take away the choice to run away.  Don't take away all her options to find a happy place or she will shut down on you completely.  So, train in a room where she can't get to the basement (or under furniture), but not on a leash.  

    Also, look for opportunities to "be the mole or small animal."  Try to see whether you can catch her attention with a small movement of your hand, or something you are holding.  Praise her or give her a treat for looking at it.  Don't go for the whole enchilada here - think of the tiniest step you can ask for, and be prepared at any time to reward that.

    Finally, try to make sure she has a way to process the new environment without needing to worry about also pleasing you.  You can do this by giving her a gated place alone in the house, or a crate.

    The name of the game with everything you do is to simplify.  Set one simple goal and make sure nothing else is going to also be expected of her.  If you are training something new, don't do it in a new place.  If you want her to adapt to inside life, make sure you aren't also bothering her or trying to get her to learn or play, while she is processing. 

    Good luck!  I hope you can get her to work with you - I think you'll find it's well worth your while.  This kind of dog tends to be very clever at figuring out what their "people" want once they learn to interpret your language and environment.  That's the silver lining of this temperament that is slow to adapt and very reactive. 

    • Gold Top Dog

     I would suggest 2 things:

    spiritsmom
    She is a heinz 57 that we picked up when she was 4 months old. She was hungry, flea infested, a broken tail, and completely terrified of anything new, noisy, or quick, or loud

     

    If you have not moved on yet from this past then you have to or she never will, she "feeds" herself from the attitude you have towards her sometimes: pitty? sorry? i dont know, but thats counter productive, forget about what happened, treat her like a whole new dog and that will help her to move on faster

    spiritsmom
    She doesn't show any signs of aggression, unless you are a mole or a small animal she can chase and catch.

     

    This is way better than you think, you can use this to increase her confidence since she feels she is in "control" of something when this happens, i think that a flirt pole will be really really helpful here

     

    You can make one yourself and attach at the end some stuffed toy that looks like the animal she likes to chase, starting with slow movements until after a few days she is begging you to play

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    brookcove

    I would definitely try clicker training with this dog.  She needs a little empowerment in her life.  However, you may need to take away the choice to run away.  Don't take away all her options to find a happy place or she will shut down on you completely.  So, train in a room where she can't get to the basement (or under furniture), but not on a leash.  

    Also, look for opportunities to "be the mole or small animal."  Try to see whether you can catch her attention with a small movement of your hand, or something you are holding.  Praise her or give her a treat for looking at it.  Don't go for the whole enchilada here - think of the tiniest step you can ask for, and be prepared at any time to reward that.

    Finally, try to make sure she has a way to process the new environment without needing to worry about also pleasing you.  You can do this by giving her a gated place alone in the house, or a crate.

    The name of the game with everything you do is to simplify.  Set one simple goal and make sure nothing else is going to also be expected of her.  If you are training something new, don't do it in a new place.  If you want her to adapt to inside life, make sure you aren't also bothering her or trying to get her to learn or play, while she is processing. 

    Good luck!  I hope you can get her to work with you - I think you'll find it's well worth your while.  This kind of dog tends to be very clever at figuring out what their "people" want once they learn to interpret your language and environment.  That's the silver lining of this temperament that is slow to adapt and very reactive. 

     

    All very good advice.  Also, read "The Cautious Canine".  It's cheap on dogwise.com or amazon, and you'll find some extra hints for dealing with a fearful dog successfully.

    • Gold Top Dog

    I do forget to recommend the books.  Dogwise is fantastic - probably I forget the books because I try not to think of Dogwise. My hand starts involuntarily creeping towards my bank card.  Tongue Tied

    • Gold Top Dog

    I have been compiling a list of books I need, not all dog training, you know Christmas is around the corner, and I go on a trip to visit my family very early for the holidays so I shop early. Anyway, clicker is definitely going to be one of them. In the meantime, I have just been trying to get her used to being inside, and trying to work with her a bit, nothing big. These are the things I have known about her, but had jusy pretty much ignored in the normal course of things because I wasn't really trying to do anything new with her, and just accepted things as they were with her. She knows the routine, hangs out with me, and I don't really expect more than that from her. She's normally well behaved in the life she lives.

    I know that I have gotten frustrated with her, not outwardly, but I'm sure she still picked up on it, and I know it isn't her fault, but after 8 years of us never hurting her, it WAS frustrating sometimes to have her just cower down and cry because soemone moved too quickly near her. I try really hard not to feel frustration anymore. ANd I'm sure I have been guilty of trying to soothe her when she was frightened. I learned better and don't do that anymore, but I know I have in the past, so I just perpetuated her fear of whatever had scared her in the first place.

    But, I can't change any mistakes I have made in the past with her, so we start from now. I don't know if she'll adjust to spending time inside. If she doesn't, then it is ok too. For the time being, when I bring her inside, I will just let her be.

    I am looking forward to doing some reading. I hope to have the books in my hand next week. I picked up some good things form the library books, but they just weren't it. Thanks again for all the great advice. believe me, I AM listening. Julie