Dog Community

Epic Fail - Training Honor Not To Bark or Pull

Posted : 5/9/2008 4:30:37 PM

Okay, here's my story:

Honor and I had our first rally class on Wednesday. On the plus side, the instructor and other owners were stunned that Honor had never done rally, she was amazing! We even ran a course, and she completed every exercise! Totally thrilling and exciting. But that's where the good sort of fizzles. Honor WAS fabulous, when we were running the course alone. The second other dogs were in the training area with her, she turned into a raging ball of fur, pulling madly on the leash and barking her head off. The worst part was I couldn't get her to stop. When I gave her the "Quiet" command, she would stop for a second, I would give her a treat, and she would start again. I tried asking her for incompatible behaviors, but it was obvious that she wasn't even listening at that point. I even tried to body-block her vision of the other dogs, but she would just pull wildly in any direction to see the dogs.

To say that I felt like a failure would be putting it mildly. It was incredibly frustrating, because her behavior during course runs showed that she CAN be trained, but her behavior around the other dogs was ridiculous. I tried every trick up my sleeve to stop her from barking and pulling, and eventually crumbled to resorting to picking her up and holding her because that's the only way she stopped. When she was on the ground around the dogs, she just did NOT quit. You couldn't even hear the instructor talking. I actually burst into tears when I came home because I had felt so useless for not figuring out how to help her.

I'm so frustrated with myself. I thought we had made more strides than this, and I'm not sure where I went wrong. When we take walks, I can ask her to sit, and she'll hold eye contact as a dog passes. She walks nicely on a leash outside as well. So I'm not sure where it all broke down, but it's obvious it did. To top it all off, she's since figured out that if she barks, I'll tell her to "Quiet" and then she gets a treat. And I know that she's picked up on this, because two kids passed us this morning on a walk, and she let out a resounding single bark and plopped into a sit, looking up at me for her treat.

So I'm at a loss at how to help this now. In terms of the "barking for treats" problem, I'm no longer asking her for quiet when she barks, and am trying to reward her whenever she's already being quiet in potential bark-worthy situations. Should I be ignoring the behavior all together? Like when you're crate training? Is there a way to teach her "Quiet" now, without inciting her to bark first? And for the leash reactivity, I'm completely unsure of my steps. She's been doing very well with utilizing incompatible behaviors to focus her attention on me, but they went out the window at class. Are there different behaviors I can teach her? How can I help her the most?

Thanks in advance to any suggestions. I feel terrible, because I'm at a total loss now at how to fix this. Honor deserves the best I can give her, and I want to help her through this leash reactivity in class. Especially because it was obvious that she was having a great time practicing the rally exercises!

AuroraLove

Posted : 5/9/2008 6:49:01 PM

Its sounds to me as if honor has been doing soem training of you, LOL That and she is just too smart for her own good.

I never understood why some people suggest stopping to gain the dogs attention when a passing dog is going by. Your teaching the dog to take note and pause from what it was doing so you are inadvertently acknowledging the other dog. If you dont want your dog to break stride when they see another dog condition them to do so using the same distarction methods.

I think his barking and acting out is part of his puppy-ness and so the first time he barked you tensed and fed him treats to keep him quiet. He learned other dogs means bark my head off so I can get treats. He's a puppy and the other dog owners have all been there. If he continued to bark and harass other dogs what would come of it? Worst case scenario is another dog might tell him to shush and your dog learns how to interract in a pack?

I know it may seem embaressing or a pain sometimes but we've all been there. I wouldnt rbe so quick to dismiss his barking and acting up in your home or in other situations but in this case it really seems like he was just gaining attention and treats for barking, LOL.....lil stinker.

agilebasenji

Posted : 5/9/2008 7:06:19 PM

At the risk of sounding like a repetive ad, I'd suggest getting the book Control Unleashed and look for a CU class/trainer in your area.

Infiniti

Posted : 5/9/2008 7:24:16 PM

AuroraLove
I think his barking and acting out is part of his puppy-ness and so the first time he barked you tensed and fed him treats to keep him quiet. He learned other dogs means bark my head off so I can get treats.

Definitely, I think that's what's been happening. And I totally admit it's my fault. That's why I was wondering about how to go about it on-leash in a controlled setting like class. The odd thing about her behavior in class is that she's absolutely silent at the dog park. When she's off-leash, she's a wonder, playing beautifully with other dogs. I'm just unsure at how to best fix my own behavior to show her that it's ok to be calm on-leash with other dogs in the room, like how she is off-leash with dogs.

AgileBasenji - You read my mind, I ordered Control Unleashed yesterday, hopefully it comes soon!

EDIT: Sentence made no sense.

corvus

Posted : 5/9/2008 9:25:19 PM

I don't think it necessarily did go all wrong. It sounds like Honor just got a bit too much stimulation watching other dogs have fun without her. Penny gets very upset when other dogs are having fun and she's not invited. Even if the activity is not really her idea of awesome fun. I took her to my mother's flyball training class once and she spent a lot of time barking. When the class finished up, I let her onto the flyball run. She did one jump and strutted off as if to say "see, I told you I could do that".

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I would exepct any dog I know to get like that in a similar situation until they'd learnt that they do get their turn and barking never means they get to interfere with other dogs. If it were me, I'd take her along to training sessions and sit on the sidelines, distracting and rewarding quiet, calm behaviour until she got used to other dogs having fun without her. That's just me, though, and I know nothing about rally or competing in anything with dogs.

tiffy

Posted : 5/9/2008 10:09:31 PM

Tootsie will bark if shes not involved in something. Shes like the "no fun" police.

spiritdogs

Posted : 5/13/2008 7:43:38 AM

Infiniti
AuroraLove
I think his barking and acting out is part of his puppy-ness and so the first time he barked you tensed and fed him treats to keep him quiet. He learned other dogs means bark my head off so I can get treats.
Definitely, I think that's what's been happening. And I totally admit it's my fault. That's why I was wondering about how to go about it on-leash in a controlled setting like class. The odd thing about her behavior in class is that she's absolutely silent at the dog park. When she's off-leash, she's a wonder, playing beautifully with other dogs. I'm just unsure at how to best fix my own behavior to show her that it's ok to be calm on-leash with other dogs in the room, like how she is off-leash with dogs.
AgileBasenji - You read my mind, I ordered Control Unleashed yesterday, hopefully it comes soon!
EDIT: Sentence made no sense.

I agree that the book will help. I think all that happened is that Honor has not generalized the "walks" and being quiet and focused there, with also being quiet and focused in such a stimulating environment. One thing you might try is to go to some places where fun show 'n' go's or rally or agility run throughs take place, and practice - that way, if you have to stay on the "outskirts" a bit at first, it's ok, and you aren't letting Honor practice the barky/lungies simply because you have paid to run a course yourself;-) You'll find that a lot of people will be there with pups, or with dogs that also need the same training.

Infiniti

Posted : 5/13/2008 10:07:36 AM

spiritdogs
One thing you might try is to go to some places where fun show 'n' go's or rally or agility run throughs take place, and practice - that way, if you have to stay on the "outskirts" a bit at first, it's ok, and you aren't letting Honor practice the barky/lungies simply because you have paid to run a course yourself;-) You'll find that a lot of people will be there with pups, or with dogs that also need the same training.

That's a great idea. There's an outdoor agility place about 10 minutes from me, and I could probably take her there during matches or practice.

I did a little bit of work yesterday when we were at Petsmart. There was a puppy class going on, and Honor desperately wanted to go see what was going on. We approached the training ring little by little, with me praising for good behavior and attention. Every time she barked, we went backwards a few steps, and went behind a fixture to calm down. After a few repetitions of this, she seemed to understand that if she was quiet, she got closer to the dogs. This practice culminated in the two of us being able to walk around the ring with her quiet, and not pulling! It was really cool.

I'm wondering if I should ask my rally trainer about employing a similar method for class. Do you (general you) think that it would be beneficial to take Honor out the door every time she starts getting barky? There would be tons of praise if she was quiet in the training facility, but we could go out a door to calm down if she got too overstimulated. Granted, we might miss some of the class, but she seemed to catch on to the similar method at Petsmart.

I think what got me so overwhelmed at the first class was that she had never exhibited these behaviors with such...fervor? Stick out tongue She seemed like she was stuck in a feedback loop of frenzy, lstm. But now I feel a little more confident that we can help each other, and hopefully we'll succeed in class!

Anonymous

Posted : 5/13/2008 10:32:12 AM

Don't beat yourself up. We all have failures from time to time and I am sure you will get it back on track in no time! It's sounds like you are already making progress.

I had an "epic failure" at agility last night, and Luna and I are working on stimulus control out the wazoo now. Luna basically loves agility so much that she goes bananas as soon as she see the equipment, and will start putting herself through all the exercises if she is off leash or pulling like crazy to get to the equipment if she is on leash. So now I have to work on her only taking obstacles on command, and being calm/focused on me the rest of the time.

She also (similar to Honor) has learned to run to the almost-end of her leash to get near what she wants, then come back to me and sit for her reward. (I'd been rewarding her for turning her attention back to me, which only taught her that it was OK to break her focus if she comes back. Ugg... epic fail #2). So the rules have changed and she only gets clicked/treated for staying very close to me and focused on me. She started picking that up as soon as I changed the rules, which is great, but will take time.

There should be an "Epic Fail" thread in training, so we can all share our "oops" stories and get input on how to get back on track.