help with aggression in older dog

    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: jodyw

    What would make him aggressive towards children and babies when they have never hurt him?


    The fact that he was never socialized to accept them as a puppy.  The socialization window for dogs is between 8 and 12 weeks of age, stretching it - 16 weeks.  But, after that, unless you have an exceptionally mellow dog, they usually remain leery of anything they haven't already figured out is harmless.  And, if you got your dog from a shelter, he may have already had a mishap with a child hurting him, even accidentally.  Children are not seen the same way as adults by dogs.  After all, they screech, run, giggle, and jump, etc.  Disconcerting to many dogs, some of whom figure the best defense is a good offense.
    There are ways to make this better.  But, it involves classical conditioning to the presence of children, not merely leadership.
    If you want more detail, PM me.
    • Gold Top Dog
    The fact that he was never socialized to accept them as a puppy. The socialization window for dogs is between 8 and 12 weeks of age, stretching it - 16 weeks. But, after that, unless you have an exceptionally mellow dog, they usually remain leery of anything they haven't already figured out is harmless. And, if you got your dog from a shelter, he may have already had a mishap with a child hurting him, even accidentally. Children are not seen the same way as adults by dogs. After all, they screech, run, giggle, and jump, etc. Disconcerting to many dogs, some of whom figure the best defense is a good offense.
    There are ways to make this better. But, it involves classical conditioning to the presence of children, not merely leadership.
    If you want more detail, PM me.

     
    How do you explain the aggression towards the cats, obviously the dog has been conditioned to the cats, and attacks are still happening?
    • Gold Top Dog
    lots of dogs consider cats to be ;prey animals. However, this dog seems to consider cats= part of the pack, but subordinate to him. You'll note he's growling to warn them away from his human, and to keep them from annoying him. I would say they are probably safe from actual harm from the dog.
    A lot of this dog's behavior seems to revolve around resource guarding-- the resource being the owner.
    I don't have any suggestions about the allergies, but I would suggest: a NILIF program, more training, and more physical and mental exercise. If you have a large yard it is possible to exercise a dog-- lots of fetching games. Dogs just left in the yard by themselves rarely get sufficient exercise.
    • Gold Top Dog
    not merely leadership.

     
    Training, socializing, aren't those two part of leadership?
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: snownose

    The fact that he was never socialized to accept them as a puppy. The socialization window for dogs is between 8 and 12 weeks of age, stretching it - 16 weeks. But, after that, unless you have an exceptionally mellow dog, they usually remain leery of anything they haven't already figured out is harmless. And, if you got your dog from a shelter, he may have already had a mishap with a child hurting him, even accidentally. Children are not seen the same way as adults by dogs. After all, they screech, run, giggle, and jump, etc. Disconcerting to many dogs, some of whom figure the best defense is a good offense.
    There are ways to make this better. But, it involves classical conditioning to the presence of children, not merely leadership.
    If you want more detail, PM me.


    How do you explain the aggression towards the cats, obviously the dog has been conditioned to the cats, and attacks are still happening?


    Conditioned how?  I doubt that the dog has received any form of classical conditioning with cats - simply living with them in the same house is not classical conditioning. 
    Predatory drive is often what keeps a dog attacking cats, and predatory drive is extremely hard to modify.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I have 5 of them, by now you know what the breeds are.
    2 of them are Husky mixes, 1 is is Husky/ Mal mix., you can imagine I had to exercise leadership considering having 3 cats.
     
    It can be done.
    Ron posted a pic above of his Husky mix sleeping with a cat.
     
    In my opinion the op adopted the dog which is wonderful, started feeding it, and just left it at that.
    Sorry to say, but dog ownership is an ongoing project.
    • Bronze
       Yes I didn't realize just how much was involved in taking care of a dog. I've always had cats and never a dog. When I got the dog it was a spur of the moment thing. Someone who I barely knew said they were taking the puppy to the pound so I said I would keep him so he wouldn't be put to sleep.
       When he was a puppy I did take him over to play with a friends puppy until we started working opposite hours then stopped doing that.
       He does get exercise. He was never just feed and left alone. He was often played with until he stopped because he was tired. We mostly play fetch with tennis balls and his favorite toy, which is a flattened 2 liter plastic bottle. Occasionally we would play tug of war but he was stronger often hurt my hands pulling the toy out of them. I also show him I'm hiding a treat under something and let him look for it.
       He knows a few tricks. He can sit, stay, shake hands, and plays dead when you point your finger at him and say bang. I taught him all of those tricks. I still make him do them for treats. He doesn't get near as much exercise now because of a combination of the asthma, other health problems I have, and time. This was another reason I had hoped to find him a new home. Besides the allergy issues I felt someone else might have the energy and time needed for him.
       He was never just forgotten. We had to tempoarily live in a desert area last summer. Since he was used to the cooler weather I was very worried what the heat would do. We had a choice between staying in a brand new but tiny condo or a house with a large yard for almost double the price. I couldn't afford it but we chose the house so he wouldn't be stuck in a tiny place with no where to run around. I also got him a small pool for the backyard which he loved when it was hot. I would throw his ball in it all the time. And instead of just grabbing it from the side of the pool, he would get in the pool, and then grab it. The neighbor had a dog (a small cute terrier) and they would bark and growl at each other through the wooden fence non-stop. I was scared sometimes he would break through the fence. But by the end of the summer they were running along the fence in what looked like play to me. He would even grab one of his toys, run to fence and try to push it under. I always wondered if they met face to face if they would have played or killed each other.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Of course he wasn't forgotten and it's not fair of everyone to assume he was. Snownose, there is a difference between not actively socializing and ignoring a dog. Goodness.
     
    I have an undersocialized dog, too, and it's not easy. He has hip dysplasia and he's been abused by kids so we're taking it super slow (gotta keep everyone safe) and taking him back to the beginning and he's being conditioned to be around kids and find them OK, too. That is classical conditioning--making something he doesn't necessarily "like" likable--like kids, etc.
     
    Big Big difference between "leadership," "training," and "conditioning." Big difference and you know that, too, Snownose. Let's not discourage the OP who's already stated she doesn't want to put her dog down and she has successfully kept babies safe from the dog already. That's a HUGE plus for you, Jody.
    • Gold Top Dog
    jodyw:
     
    I know you did a very good thing, you adopted a puppy that needed your help[;)]
     
    I am sure you had all good intentions, but I stand firm with what I said, a dog is an ongoing situation, a project, so to speak. I have all the confidence in the world you can turn things around, don't know about the allergy situation, though.
    My nephew has severe asthma, he can not even have stuffed animals around him.
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    Thank you, Snownose. We are saying the same thing after all! However, conditioning this dog now is probably best and then training it will really seal the deal.
     
    I agree with so many on this particular thread--this is a commitment and it's a lot of work and while it all sounds good, it's not easy to do this day in and day out.
     
    I know for sure because I have a dog who's weird around kids. It's a lot of work.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Also, no one is saying that any of this can't be done.  I have a dog that was weird around kids, but is now a registered therapy dog.  But, I have the time and skill to accomplish that.  Most pet owners have lives that do not revolve completely around their dogs, so to expect that they will have the same level of knowledge that comes from a lifetime of study, or even a few years on idog, LOL, is asking a lot.  My sense is that jody is doing the best she knows how - especially since she's still here soaking up new knowledge.  I'm glad she isn't giving up on her dog. [:)]
    • Gold Top Dog
    Okay, try this:

    Google NILIF (nothing in life is free).  Start the dog on that immediately.

    Pu the dog on a schedule.  Here is a shoddy example of Zeus's.  7-10AM/walk/outside/feeding.  10-12 inside/nap 12-2pm. outside.  2-4 television priviledges are somewhere in this time.  (he loves the tele) 4-7PM, outside/walk/feeding..  7 to 9 he comes in for the night..

    You have to work with what drives your dog.  Zeus loves being outside soaking up the sun. He loves his naps.  He loves his walks and his tele. Drives in the truck. These are resources that I control. (NILIF).  He is in the process of "earning" a daily alloted drive in the beloved truck.

    Even if you think the dog is getting proper exercise, getting "out" is beneficial.  If only for a 15 minute exploration of the world.

    I would start with 2-15 minute walks and let the dog "earn" more time.

    If the dog pulls....don't go anywhere.  Just stand in one spot until it quits acting silly.  When it starts acting respectful, then you can  go forward.

    If dogs or people scare it while on leash...get it to look at you and start feeding it treats until the bad thing has gone away. Try to avoid these situations.  Take the dog out where it will not be disturbed.  Don't allow people or dogs to walk in it's space.

    Maybe some folks will come along with some good links.  If not, I will come back.  Right now, I am in a bit of rush,  Zeus needs walked.

    Around or about age 10, I started slacking on Zeus.  I had such the "sympathy factor" going on that I almost lost control of him. Not enough excersise (the poor old guy needs his rest, pet pet, hug hug) or if he snapped at someone or did something silly (oh, the poor old guy is getting old and grumpy, pet pet, hug hug).

    He could do no wrong in my eyes because I had the "Leave him alone, he's old...he's going to die in a few years" thing going on.

    He took advantage of this big time. So, I think even dogs who have had a good life with the same family forever, can get a little out of hand at this age.

    I too, consider myself a responsible dog owner.  But I understand how this can sneak up on you. 





    • Gold Top Dog
    NILIF
    http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm

    Here is a good link for the leash
    http://dogcentral.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=1227100

    For leas and pulling...
    http://www.4pawsu.com/PawPrint/looseleash.pdf

    a good link in general...
    http://www.4pawsu.com/articles.htm

    Another thing, I am wondering if "ah the poor thing was going to be put to sleep" sympathy factor is not involved here.

    Also, I caught myself in the middle of aggression =fear sympathy factor. Which Zeus totally took advantage of.

    Zeus is leash reactive to large dogs.  He was once attacked by  a big dog  while on leash. "oh the poor thing is scared too death" (pet pet, hug hug)...in Zeus's thick head, that somehow translated to "now I can terrorize any and all dogs while on leash.  Not only am I big and bad...I am VERY important."

    In reality, Zeus is fearless and most likely liked the adrenaline rush of the fight.

    Now my attitude is "keep calling him over here to fight bad boy.  I am going to give you plenty of leash to meet and greet and act like a dog.  If either of you act stupid, both of you will get a face full of citronella". Since this change in my energy, he hasn't (knock on wood) made a peep.

    Do understand that I am not a professional.  Just someone trying to save her dog.


    • Bronze
    Thanks for the links. I'm checking them out.