Dog Community

Willow--Dog meeting

Posted : 12/3/2006 5:49:45 PM

Well, since everyone seems to be around tonight I thought I'd get a few ideas on this.

Today, we were taking our usual morning walk, our usual route, when we saw a dog (some sort of shepard mix, not much bigger than Willow though, female) was running inside the soccer field that we walk along the outside of. Her owner was in their with her, they weren't supposed to be in there.

Anyway, the dog came to the fence and I let Willow go to the fence to see what she'd do. First, they ran back and forth as far as Willow's leash would let her go.
I'm thinking the other dog is running because she wants to play, Willow is running because she wants to "get" the other dog. But, neither were making any sort of growling or sounds at all.

Then they sniffed thru the fence. The other dog was obviously being very submissive, looking away, standing to the side, very nice dog. Willow was puffed up and tail up, sniffing hard, but not growling. I said, "Willow, gentle" and relaxed as much as I possibly could. And, she did OK, nothing much in the way of growling or barking, just a little stiff but not horrible.

So, I thought maybe if I spoke to the other dog Willow would see her as sort of OK. So, I started saying, "hi, sweetie, are you havin' fun in there"? As soon as the dog looked at me responding to me talking to her, that's when she got a growl and full teeth.

What do you guys make of this?? I'm a resource or?? jealousy?? Does it sound like there's any hope for her to at least be civil to other dogs???

Is there something I should do when she starts to growl like that?? What should I say at that time??
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Scout in Canada

Posted : 12/4/2006 7:11:58 AM

I definitely think it was a dog form of "jealousy". Scout has done a similar behaviour - she doesn't growl, but she'll go from greeting nicely to bullying the other dog as soon as I talk to it or pet it.

Our trainer explained it like this: You generally pay all your attention to Willow when on walks. When another dog is around, and you switch your attention to the new dog, Willow loses some of it (and we know how much dogs want attention!). So Willow sees the new dog as something negative. If instead you paid extra positive attention to Willow in the presence of other dogs, she might see it as a positive experience.

spiritdogs

Posted : 12/4/2006 9:22:56 AM

You are a resource, plain and simple. We are all a resource to our dogs. But, as to whether she was growling for that reason (to guard what she perceives as hers, a member of her pack) or whether she growled because you tensed up on her leash - or there was anxiety in your voice, I cannot say without having been there to witness. Suffice to say that leash reactive or aggressive dogs can discern so much as a momentary hesitation in your breathing, so neither reason would surprise me much.
80% of aggression is based in fear or anxiety, and Chows, if not socialized to freakin' death as pups (and even sometimes when they are) are one of the likeliest breeds to consider other dogs or people to be suspect. Just the way life is for them. I don't consider her reaction to be out of the ordinary for her history or breed.
HTH

willowchow

Posted : 12/4/2006 2:30:47 PM

Yup, she's definately fearful more than anything else. At first, I didn't realize it but over the past year or so her fear has become much more obvious than it was at first. She's more afraid of lots of things and she shows it now.

Is there anything I can do when I do get into a situation like that again? Should I just be quiet and not talk or talk to her or the other dog?? I want her to slowly verrrry slowly) start to realize that she doesn't have to be afraid of other dogs.

snownose

Posted : 12/4/2006 2:58:13 PM

You can be the confident leader she needs.
Ignore the situation, don't tense up, walk as if there was nothing to worry about.
She will pick up on your energy, the more you make a situation out of it the more it will scare her.

Scout in Canada

Posted : 12/4/2006 3:11:03 PM

Is there anything I can do when I do get into a situation like that again? Should I just be quiet and not talk or talk to her or the other dog?? I want her to slowly verrrry slowly) start to realize that she doesn't have to be afraid of other dogs.

Our trainer did a demo in class of how to deal with this situation.

As she and her dog approached another handler and their dog, she stopped several feet away and paid extra special attention to her own dog. Verbal praise and "chatter", treats, and petting. Lots of positive stuff.

J M

Posted : 12/4/2006 3:21:51 PM

It sounds like Willow was looking for an excuse and would have eventually found one whether you spoke to the other dog or not. This is such typical Zeus behavior ;-)

I just snap (quick and firm) my fingers and march his butt home. In ignore/shun mode. No looks, no words, no pets. No sniffs, no pees... short lead in human form. Quick stride. No anger, no impatience...just firmness. My mission is to get him home as quickly as possible and away from me. When home, he is put away. Again in ignore/shun mode.

Then I go to him in a little while andact like nothing happened.

I walk Zeus with a long lead. He pretty much does what he pleases as long as he is behaving. He pees, he sniffs, he trots back and forth...dog stuff.

I think there may be a lot of association going on....and definitely a change in my energy... because sometimes the snap of the fingers will bring him right out of it and to my side. If it does, the walk continues on as before.

Truthfully, I think it depends on whether he wants to do whatever he isn't supposed to be doing badly enough.

sillysally

Posted : 12/5/2006 2:20:21 PM

In some ways Willow really sounds like Sally. If she is going to growl at a dog it is not going to be right away either.

Kali Barlendokk

Posted : 12/5/2006 11:17:21 PM

I'm not sure, but I think it may have been a little of both. Striker is unbelievable with his protective jealousy. When we take him to the vet, the vet requests that we leave the room sometimes because Striker won't let him get near enough to talk to us. [&:]
So, yeah, I'm not exactly sure what you would do to correct that, but the other posters have offered some good advice. Good luck.

J M

Posted : 12/6/2006 10:46:58 AM

I think some dogs first have to assess the situation. Willow had already established that she was "safe". She trailed the fence a few times and saw the dog could not get to her. The dog clearly showed submission.

I don't know if dogs can think or not, but if so, I bet her next thought was "hmmmm...can I get by with it?"

When she heard Mommy's voice say her name, she very well could have thought...."oh yeah, just as I thought. Not only am I big and bad...I am IMPORTANT." (typical Zeus attitude)

Now I am not totally convinced that this can be played out in thought, but more like body language and energy.

Ack! I feel the need to add a disclaimer: I am not saying this is the way it is. Just maybe another perspective to consider.

ORIGINAL: sillysally

In some ways Willow really sounds like Sally. If she is going to growl at a dog it is not going to be right away either.

mudpuppy

Posted : 12/6/2006 3:04:10 PM

well, I have no real idea why she growled, not having been there, but next time something like this happens, you probably should praise and pay attention to Willow instead of the other dog! reward her for "being civil". And then leave before things have a chance to degenerate.

rwbeagles

Posted : 12/7/2006 10:14:49 PM

Hmm I often wonder why people allow their dogs to approach other dogs first. As the leader...isn't that relaly your place? in front..doing the greeting and okaying any activity.

Perhaps that is why leash reactive dogs are that way. They are abandonded in their minds...whenever a truly anxiety provoking thing like a new dog is put into the picture. Surely then they are left no other option than to run (dont want to leave the pack tho, and there's this thing on my neck) or bluff it out and try to pretend they are in charge.

Perhaps if the human put them into a sit/stay and went to the end of the lead and BLOCKED the other dogs approach...interacted with it, then released their own dog things might be different? If nothing else the new dog would then have the scent of the leader on it.

Just wonderings on the topic....dunno that there's anything to it....