Question about crate training and times

8 hours? Would you like to be locked in a crate for 8 hours? You will get a lot of diverse replies regarding crate training in here but I think most will agree that 8 hours is a little ridiculous. Do your exersice your pup? Most people crate their dogs when they go to work inthe morning which is okay ONLY if they have given the dog a vigorous walk prior to that. Its hard on a dog to sleep throught the night then go straight in the kennel. I'm no insinuating your are using this cruelty on your dog but a lot of eople read these message boards so I just want to make myslef clear.
Do you maybe have a area in your home that you could baby gate off and let her roam in? It sounds like sh eis adjusting very well and seems eager to make you happy! Congrats on the new addition to your family, lets see some pics of your fur baby!

I also think 8 hours is a bit too long to leave crated, especially if she sleeps there at night. Would a pen be a possibility? since she is small maybe a 6ft long, wide pen? You can make your own!

You're teaching the dog to soil inside its crate?  >O.o<

I certainly am no expert, but I think 8 hours is too long to leave a 12 week old pup crated.  OTOH, it sounds like she is doing pretty well with it.
 
Can one of you come home mid day and let her out for awhile?  I agree with Lizzie.  I would try to find a way to contain her to a puppy proofed room rather than crating her.

I'm on the band-wagon about the pup being crated too long.  I could not imagine leaving my pups in their crates all day.  We use a Superyard play gate.  It is a pen made of plastic that snaps together and it portable.  We have made a section for them in our kitchen (because the flooring is linolium) and have their food, water, toys and a bed on one end and their potty area on the other end.  We are using puppy pads....We were going to try the litter box, but they made a mess with that (not that they haven't made a mess with the pads as well), but the point is...they have room to move around and play together and eat and drink and potty while we are not able to watch them.  They only time they are in their crates is during the night and maybe for a short time during the day. 

Yes, most dogs do love their crates, but I can't imagine the pup being happy about being in there for so long and having to hold it that long.

Does the pup have food and water in the crate all day?  The answer to that question is bad either way for you...if it does then that means it is getting a full belly and bladder and has to hold it all day...if it doesn't have food and water all day...then I guess it would be obvious why that would be bad.  You may want to reconsider the arrangements you currently have.
 
Ok...I had to edit this....but I left everything I originally said the way it was...I'm just going to append here...
 
After re-reading the original post I think I may have misunderstood what you are saying....but now I think it is clear...you keep the pup in a crate which has a litterbox in it that the pup uses while in the crate and you have toys and all that in the crate as well.  Food and water too...I'm hoping...  I hope this is a BIG crate.  Even with all that info straight...I still think you are keeping the pup in the crate too long unless it is a REALLY big crate..but I'm not sure they make them THAT big.  Anyway....I'd consider a larger area with a play gate of some type in an area of the house that is puppy proof.

I think crates are cruel and useless, I mean, would you like to be in a tiny confined space for hours on end? Or would you like to go to sleep in a nice bed and if you need to wake up in the middle of the night to get a drink of water of use the bathroom would you  feel good if you had to hold it all night or if you kept tossing and turning all night with a dry mouth? My dogs (all 5 of them) sleep on my bed or in their own beds, in my room with all the doors to the rooms open and they do not have any accident or tear up anything.

Crazy-
 
1. How old are your dogs?
 
2. Dogs like having close spaces to relax.  It is like their "den".  They do not see it as being confined unless you make it a negative thing.  To them...it is a positive, comfortable place to be.  There is nothing wrong with using a crate with a dog  as long as you don't keep the dog in the crate for long periods of time and you give the dog plenty of time to have freedom to run and play each day, potty, eat drink, etc...

ORIGINAL: lovemytoys

Crazy-

1. How old are your dogs?

2. Dogs like having close spaces to relax.  It is like their "den".  They do not see it as being confined unless you make it a negative thing.  To them...it is a positive, comfortable place to be.  There is nothing wrong with using a crate with a dog  as long as you don't keep the dog in the crate for long periods of time and you give the dog plenty of time to have freedom to run and play each day, potty, eat drink, etc...

 
I think their is a big difference with crating a small poodle and a larger dog. Not to mention that it is a puppy and right now is when he needs to have constant attention. Plus its 8 hours, and he didnt mention if he is exercising the pup before hand or if he is just waking up from 8 hours night sleep and putting him striaght in the crate.....that is cruelty. I agree that some dogs do find comfort in its crate and this one can also.....but not as a pup for 8 hours. A gated off kitchen or room would be a much better solution for the better of the dog, the relationship this owner is trying to form with his dog, and the dog;s mental and physical well being, its a simple as that

I think crates are cruel and useless

Crates are not "cruel and useless" when they are used properly. Of course I certainly wouldn't crate my puppy for 8 hours (the exception here is during sleep hours, and he sleeps through the night, but he is nearing 5 months old now. During the day, the very LONGEST he is ever crated is 5 hours, and that is when I'm working 10 hour days at work, but I still use my lunch break to come home and let him out. He eats in his crate. He gets kongs and bones in his crate. When I take any of these items out, he RUNS and LEAPS into his crate. He wouldn't do such a thing if he didn't see that crate as a positive place to be. Once I can trust him in the house better, I'll most likely wean him off the crate and he'll be able to roam like my older dog does. So, I don't think there's anything wrong with crating, unless it's not used correctly.

Nothing cruel or useless about crates.  I agree with astaracheetah.  MOST of my dogs are old enough to be reliable in the house alone.  But they are also gsds and will FIND a job if I don't give them one.  I've run to the store for milk and come back to find a newish recliner gone...destroyed in a matter of 20 minutes.  Would they still do that?  I'm not giving them the chance.
 
Yesterday we ran into the drug store and I DID leave them in the garage.  Our house is set up with direct access to the dog yard, which is fenced with 6 foot chain link all the way around, from the garage.  Now I could have left the door open and let them be outside...we are miles out in the country and no one is around to bother them, it was still daytime so the liklihood of predators was pretty low, but I still put them INSIDE the garage to go rather than bring them all in and crate them.  For one thing, I know that Sheba would go NUTS if she saw us driving away and move heaven and earth to escape to "find" me....and then I'd have all of them running loose.  Sheba can jump a 4 foot fence from a standstill, so I know she could find a way over this one if she wanted to badly enough.
 
Now, NOT bringing them in and crating them was HUGE for me....and honestly I worried the entire time we were gone, which was all of 20 minutes.  I probably won't do that again because my stomach was tied in knots over it.  I keep coming back to this.....in their crates they can be safely removed from the house, crate and all, by firefighters in the event of a fire.  There crates are placed in locations that they are easily accessable.....four are in the lower level and need simply be pulled through that kitchen and out patio doors.  The other two are in my office on the main floor and equally easy to remove through the front door.
 
And, when you think about it to, for me at least, with more than one, it takes so little to tick someone off.....they can be playing and happy and suddenly there is a disagreement.  If I'm HERE, it takes one word and it stops, but I surely don't want to be not here and have them disagree about something and come home to a seriously injured dog...or worse.  These are gsds.  They can inflict a LOT of damage very quickly.
 
Mine too get meals, treats and bones in the crates.  When someone says "bedtime" they go running to their crates.  When they see kongs coming out, or bones, same thing, and no one can GET there fast enough at meal time.  And honestly, we don't even CLOSE the crates at nite and no one leaves their crate.  That's their BED and it's where the want to be.  My crates are so big that two can easily share and still have plenty of room.
 
Cruel and useless my foot.

I think 8 hours is much too long. She's a young pup with lots of energy and needs someone to be there and spend time with her. Maybe as she gets a little older it would be okay as long as that's the only time she's in the crate and is free the rest of the time. But just imagine locking a child up for 8 hours how board they would get, it's the same for a pup.

I am also crate training. Hubby and I recently - as in four days ago - adopted a 10 month JRT/Cattle Dog mix from our local rescue shelter. Penny - our puppy - is adjusting nicely, but hates the crate. We tried to wean her to it with treats and praise, but when the time comes to put her in for nighttime or to go to work we have to physically put her in there.
 
Today is the first day she has been crated for long periods...five hours this morning and four this afternoon by the time we get home. I went home at lunch and took her for a short walk and played in the back yard with her throw toy. I never could get her to go #2 but she piddled a couple times.
 
I plan to go home everyday for lunch to let her out and give her an hour of fun and exercise. That helps break up her day and tire her out for the afternoon. Then we let her out all evening while we are at home. In the morning my husband lets her out in the back to do her business and play until I get up and bring her back in to the crate. She is out about 2 hours. I plan to get up a little earlier and actually walk her before putting back in the crate. That'll help my mid year resolution to lose weight too )
 
So...this long a$$ story just to say...I feel your anxiety about leaving her alone during work. Are you able to adjust your schedule and come home a lunch to spend some time with her? Do you have a stay at home neighbor that would be able to come by and spend time with her in the middle of the day?
 
Does anyone have advice on warming up our Penny to the crate? We don't want it to be a negative, but a safe haven for her.
 
Thanks!

I'm an anti-crate person, I think it's a weird idea to keep a dog in a tiny cage for hours on end-- why don't people just housebreak their dogs? and housebreak doesn't mean just where to potty, it means what not to chew on and how to properly behave in the house. Untrained dogs must be confined at all times or supervised, but they don't need to be crated. Dogs clearly don't naturally LIKE crates because they have to be trained to accept them. Dogs are not den animals like so many people claim. Only whelping mothers and young pups hang out in dens.
We use an x-pen in the back kitchen to confine untrained dogs when they cannot be supervised.
However, I do recommend you teach all dogs to accept short periods of crate confinement, just in case. There are times in a dog's life where he may need to be crated, such as when traveling or when ill. Look up "crate games" online. This is a series of training games where you teach the pup to run into the crate on command, and to stay in the crate even with the door open until released. Uses lots of rewards. Many dogs get really enthusiatic about charging into and out of crates after playing these games.
But please, try hard to not cage your dog for more than a few hours at a time on  a regular basis. It's cruel and unnecessary.