crate training ? (long)

    • Gold Top Dog

    crate training ? (long)

    Hello all,
     
    I haven't been online in a while or posted but wanted to ask you all something that was just brought to my attention.  Our puppy bear is about 3 months old and is doing great overall.  He is pretty much completely crate trained meaning that he will know to go in it at night for bed and doesn't whine.  The thing is that bear and our other dog tammy are pretty much out for a great part of the day to get enough exercise when the weather is nice.  Someone is always home supervising them when they are out and if someone is not home then they are brought back in the house and bear put back in his crate.  My question is that my uncle from ny who has always had dogs and breed them (responsibly) has recently said that I am in a sense ruining bear being that i usually don't give him much freedom in the house loose and will instead put him in the crate not long after being brought in from outside.  He is getting real good at housebreaking and had thought that as long as he got alot of exercise outside then running loose in the house with the possibility of having an accident was not such a good idea.
     
    Basically my uncle is saying that he is going to get to the point where he will not know how to act in the house when he gets older because he has not been able to have his freedom.  Is this true? The last thing i want is to do something that is having or will have a negative effect on him but thought that he should be crated when indoors for the most part being that he was getting a good workout all day long outside.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!
    • Gold Top Dog
    If your goal is to eventually be able to uncrate the dog, then you simply crate train in reverse--you uncrate train, once you feel the dog is able to begin that process. But to trust a dog in a home alone, running around free, without any prior training as to what is and is not appropriate (which of course can only be done when someone is home and watching very closely), is asking for trouble. Are some dogs just naturally good like that? Sure. And I've heard more than one person who just lucked into such a dog criticize everyone else for crate-training because they personally didn't need to, and that's just really short-sighted. My first dog was just naturally trustworthy home alone (though that's not to say there weren't a couple notable incidents) and if he was the only dog I'd ever had experience with then maybe I'd also think that crating is a waste of time. Then I got a dog with severe seperation anxiety. And then I got a highly intelligent easily-bored working breed. And neither of those two can be trusted with free-roam. Ever. I've got the four figure vet bills to prove it in the case of the latter dog (what happens when you combine someone absent-mindedly leaving a bottle of medicine on a bedside table with a curious little doggy? $1700 in vet bills)

    Back in the good old days, dogs who weren't trustworthy inside the house were dealt with by tossing them outside to live, or getting rid of them. Those options are much less acceptable now, but that may have given someone a little older the impression that once upon a time all dogs were trustworthy with free roam and something about this new-fangled crate-training is creating untrustworthy dogs. Not so. Crate training is now used as an option to keep dogs in the home while teaching them acceptable behavior rather than just tossing dogs outside, or taking them for a trip "to a farm" when they proved to not catch on the to the concept quickly without crating.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I don't agree with that notion at all.....  Does a kid "not know how to behave in the house" because his freedom was restricted as a baby/toddler?  After all, for safety's sake, you don't let a small child have the run of your house do you? 
     
    If your dog has too much freedom he will get into bad habits because you are not there to prevent them.  IMO a pup should be safely confined or closely supervised and should be offered gradually more trust and freedom as he grows and matures.  Just my [sm=2cents.gif]
    • Bronze
    I'm still a novice at this, but I think crate and uncrate training is like all the other types of training.  You do it in stages.  Like the analogy that you wouldn't leave a small child alone unsupervised, you don't leave a puppy unsupervised.  When Bear is older, you start training him to be out by leaving him alone for increasing amounts of time.
     
    I have 2 1 year old lab mixes.  They cannot be unsupervised.  They're getting better, but they are very good at finding new things to chew if they get bored.  The crate keeps them and my house safe.
     
    When Bear's ready, you'll train him to be out, but I'd suspect 3 months is very young. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    At 3mo, pups in my house get pretty much the same amount of confinement and supervision as they do when they arrive at 8 weeks.  OK, so the house training is coming along well and I don't anticipate many accidents at that stage but the bladder is still small and his control of his bodily functions still fairly weak.  So I give him all the help I can by still supervising, confing and taking out often.  Plus, teething and chewing can continue on and off for over a year, some breeds (like labs) dont stop eating everything in sight till age 3!  In general, I don't consider a dog to be ready to free run of the house until at LEAST 2 years old.... we progress to that stage gradually.  So, moving from using a crate to confining to one room or one area of the house for example as a kind of half way house before leaving them out completely.
    • Moderators
    • Gold Top Dog
    We have crate trained our dog from the day we got him at about 12-14 wks old.  Initially this was a pup that needed to crated even when we were home for our sanity and his safety - very very active and very very smart [:)].  Then he was crated only when we went out and at night, don't remember exactly when but could have been 8 mos old or so, he loves to be busy and was always looking for something (regardless of lots and lots of exercise).  Then I suppose when he was about 12 months old he was gated in our kitchen and adjoining sunroom.  Then at about 16-18 mos old we started letting him have roam of the downstairs.  At 19-20 mos old that is still where we are at.  He still sleeps in his crate and we have only recently been able to keep it unlocked because he was obviously stressed if we didn't lock it.  He would sort of stay "on-duty" unless we locked it at which point he would let out a bigs sigh curl up and go into a deep sleep.  Now it is unlocked, but closed except for about an inch or two, and still covered by a sheet.
    He is a constant chewer, huge and powerful, needs to be busy and high energy and guess what he has never done any damage in the house - ever.  he has never had an accident in the house - ever.  So we weren't crating for house breaking.
    He sleeps when we go out and funnily doesn't drink water or anything when we leave so the theory that yours 'won't know what to do' is just silly.
    I would say that our dog needed to be crated for longer than most but I wouldn't have considered not crating him at 3 months old - he would have been a danger to himself and it would have stressed him out to have all that freedom. 
    Know your dog and introduce him to freedom as you feel he is ready