Standing up for herself

Poor Rita! Is everybody picking on you? I wouldn't worry. She'll find her strength and confidence as she matures. My 5mth old poodle takes a lot of guff from her big brother. He pins her down and is constantly correcting her with growls and barks. She is very timid and quiet most of the time. I worry she'll get hurt during their rough play, but most of the time, she's the instigater! 

Congratulations on owning a Swissie!!!  First I would like to suggest that you post on the Greater Swiss Mountain dog iste and forum, everyone one there is very knowledgeable and expierenced in Swissy personalities. 

Swissies are normally very confident dogs however, there as some that are not as confident as your Rita.  One thing people do not do a enough of with there Swissies (and dogs in general) is socialize enough.  Socialiazion is key to helping Rita adjust to situations.  I don't think Rita coyness is an issue.
 
Swissies can be "hard" and "soft" and the soft dogs need gental training and the "hard" dogs need some other reinforcers.  I would highly suggest you enroll in a training class and keep it up - it is good for socializing as well as training.  Swissies grow rapidly and before you know it you will have a very large "puppy" so begin obdience now.  My boy was over a 100 pounds by 10 months.  Because the breed is bred for working they are very independant dogs and as they come into adolesents, between 10 months and a year they can start to show signs of wanting to be incharge (both males and females).  It is esential that you become the leader early on and I would suggest you google NILIF and start that protacol as well.  Try to never be aggressive or act mad at your Swissy they are loving and very sensitve but you need to be benevolent leader.  Like I said, seach Greaterswiss.com form and I am sure you will find good advise there.

Post pictures!
 

ORIGINAL: luvmyswissy

Congratulations on owning a Swissie!!!  First I would like to suggest that you post on the Greater Swiss Mountain dog iste and forum, everyone one there is very knowledgeable and expierenced in Swissy personalities. 

Swissies are normally very confident dogs however, there as some that are not as confident as your Rita.  One thing people do not do a enough of with there Swissies (and dogs in general) is socialize enough.  Socialiazion is key to helping Rita adjust to situations.  I don't think Rita coyness is an issue.

Swissies can be "hard" and "soft" and the soft dogs need gental training and the "hard" dogs need some other reinforcers.  I would highly suggest you enroll in a training class and keep it up - it is good for socializing as well as training.  Swissies grow rapidly and before you know it you will have a very large "puppy" so begin obdience now.  My boy was over a 100 pounds by 10 months.  Because the breed is bred for working they are very independant dogs and as they come into adolesents, between 10 months and a year they can start to show signs of wanting to be incharge (both males and females).  It is esential that you become the leader early on and I would suggest you google NILIF and start that protacol as well.  Try to never be aggressive or act mad at your Swissy they are loving and very sensitve but you need to be benevolent leader.  Like I said, seach Greaterswiss.com form and I am sure you will find good advise there.

Post pictures!
 

 
I'll have to get around to taking some new pictures today, most are a month or so old now (which, as I'm sure you know, can make a big difference in a Swissy!)

I've already started Rita on puppy training, she's almost done with that and she'll begin her basic intermediate training in a couple of weeks.  I also regularly take her to the dog park so she's very familiar with other dogs, even some that tend to play a little rough.  The issue hasn't gotten better in time so I was wondering if it ever was.  Fortunately for her when she's 100 pounds most dogs wont want to mess with her!  I'm still hoping she gets a bit of a backbone and learns to tell other dogs "no!" every now and then. 

I didn't know of that website, I'll be sure to check it out now.  Thanks!

I think obedience classes and NILIF training are a must for all dogs. But, I don't see a problem with the way Rita is behaving. She is demonstrating good social skills, I would be concerned if she were snapping, and acting defensively towards the other dogs. One thing you may want to do is to find pup's her own age to play with and social adults. The worst thing that can happen right now is a negative situation to take place which may cause her defensive or offensive.

Right now it's important to learn social skills and how to steer clear of conflict and how to act appropriately to keep a situation from escalating. For example if she is pinned, instead of snapping back or becoming offensive she may start just laying there until the other dog gets off her. Even confident dogs will roll over in play and allow themselves to be pinned.

You should also pick up a few books by Jean Donaldson to read up or Pat McConnell (sp) to read up about dog play and behavior. You may find that Rita is playing her cards well and interacting on her terms without allowing a situation to escalade.

You certainly don't want a dog that become offensive towards other dogs. It really is a social handicap and holds you back from many fun doggy play groups etc.

Having 5 dogs myself it's important for these dogs to walk away from some situations which in some cases could cause a dog fight.  For instance my Newf's all came from kennels at the age of 2 and they had food aggression issues at first.  Now, if Athena my Rottweiler didn't have proper social skills I could have had plenty of bad situations on my hands.  Instead when it came time to feeding and I saw Dilon eyeing Athena, she would look away and break eye contact.  Athena is a very confident dog, and her confidence makes her smart with the other dogs.[]  

ORIGINAL: Cally01

I think obedience classes and NILIF training are a must for all dogs. But, I don't see a problem with the way Rita is behaving. She is demonstrating good social skills, I would be concerned if she were snapping, and acting defensively towards the other dogs. One thing you may want to do is to find pup's her own age to play with and social adults. The worst thing that can happen right now is a negative situation to take place which may cause her defensive or offensive.

Right now it's important to learn social skills and how to steer clear of conflict and how to act appropriately to keep a situation from escalating. For example if she is pinned, instead of snapping back or becoming offensive she may start just laying there until the other dog gets off her. Even confident dogs will roll over in play and allow themselves to be pinned.

You should also pick up a few books by Jean Donaldson to read up or Pat McConnell (sp) to read up about dog play and behavior. You may find that Rita is playing her cards well and interacting on her terms without allowing a situation to escalade.

You certainly don't want a dog that become offensive towards other dogs. It really is a social handicap and holds you back from many fun doggy play groups etc.

Having 5 dogs myself it's important for these dogs to walk away from some situations which in some cases could cause a dog fight.  For instance my Newf's all came from kennels at the age of 2 and they had food aggression issues at first.  Now, if Athena my Rottweiler didn't have proper social skills I could have had plenty of bad situations on my hands.  Instead when it came time to feeding and I saw Dilon eyeing Athena, she would look away and break eye contact.  Athena is a very confident dog, and her confidence makes her smart with the other dogs.[]  

I see what you're saying; I certainly don't want Rita snapping at every dog that looks at her wrong.  What concerns me is situations where she does just walk away and the dog keeps pestering her.  For example, yesterday at the dog park she was playing with a Doberman puppy (also five months old).  He was a bit bigger than her, but far more coordinated, so he was jumping all over Rita, playing rougher than she likes, biting a bit too hard (I saw a little bit of blood on her tongue afterwards and though I didn't see a cut anywhere on her, I get worried if I see blood on her).  I could visibly see she didn't like it, she had a very frustrated look on her face and whenever she would walk away the Doberman puppy would keep at her.
 
It's good that she shows restraint but shouldn't there be a time where she says "enough is enough" and just growl, show her teeth for a second to let the other puppy know "hey, I don't like what you're doing, cool it!"  I've got a pretty good impression of how rough she likes to play and it seems like there are a number of dogs who enjoy it to a greater degree than she does.  I don't want to have to constantly be pulling dogs off of her that are just too rough for her (though, of course, I always will if I have to!)

I think you should count your blessings. A lot of people would love to have a dog this tolerant of others' rudeness. Does she generally enjoy the dog park apart from these incidents? I'd say if she's being harrassed just pull her out of there and do something else she'll enjoy more.

ORIGINAL: jones

I think you should count your blessings. A lot of people would love to have a dog this tolerant of others' rudeness. Does she generally enjoy the dog park apart from these incidents? I'd say if she's being harrassed just pull her out of there and do something else she'll enjoy more.

She does seem to enjoy the dog park aside from this incidents.  I also wanted to clarify something; Rita doesn't really act like what I would call a "submissive" dog.  When I think submissive, I think a dog that'll plop on its back for any dog that challenges him/her, and is very cautious and nervous around more dominant dogs, ready to submit.  The best way I can describe Rita is aloof; she's not overly confident nor insecure.  She doesn't appear to be dominant or submissive.  She kind of has her own personality and she's not at all afraid to play with any dog that looks interesting (except a Doberman that was mean to her once, but that's another story!)  When there IS a problem with a dog she's been playing with, she acts like she just wants to ignore the problem until it goes away.  And when the problem dog does finally go away, she runs back to the dog and quickly nips at his ear or jumps at him to try to get the other dog to play again!  Then the other dog gets too rough again, Rita gets annoyed, and the process repeats itself.

For example, today there was a german shepherd puppy at the dog park.  He's about the same age as Rita, but maybe 10 pounds heavier.  He's timid because of some incidents he's been through at the dog park, and also seems to be a bit lacking in social skills.  He will play with other puppies, and today him and Rita were playing.  The GS puppy started getting a little rough, at one point he bit Rita's collar and wouldn't let go of it.  He didn't have any of Rita's skin at all (that I could tell) and Rita acted completely oblivious to the dog.  She kept sniffing things on the ground, and pretended the other puppy wasn't there.  After the owners of the GS puppy got their dog to release Rita's collar, they went back to playing, but the GS got a bit more rough and nippy.  At this point Rita kinda started walking away from the other puppy, and would move her head away whenever the other dog would circle around her and nip at her (in a playful way). At one point, something the other puppy did caused Rita to yelp and the owners of that dog pulled him off her for a second.  As soon as they did, Rita went right back after the dog to try to play some more.

It is a problem for me because there are a lot of dogs that want to play rough with her when she doesn't want to.  I hate to keep pulling other dogs off of her, since they constantly come back to pick on this easy target, and I don't want other owners to feel like their dog is being too aggressive or rough when really, as I see it, my dog is the one with the problem.  Perhaps it wont matter when she's fully grown and far larger and more powerful than most of the dogs in the dog park, but for the time being I've become hesitant to take her there because it's inevitable that she gets picked on.

ORIGINAL: bgfield
 For example, yesterday at the dog park she was playing with a Doberman puppy (also five months old).  He was a bit bigger than her, but far more coordinated, so he was jumping all over Rita, playing rougher than she likes, biting a bit too hard (I saw a little bit of blood on her tongue afterwards and though I didn't see a cut anywhere on her, I get worried if I see blood on her).  I could visibly see she didn't like it, she had a very frustrated look on her face and whenever she would walk away the Doberman puppy would keep at her

And what were you doing while all this was going on? You could have asked the other owner to control his dog or you could have been a good leader and stepped in and through aggressive body language and tone of voice made the other dog back off. You could have walked away and led your dog to safety, standing around at the dog park is a bad idea. To passively sit back and watch your dog continuously get roughed up when it is obvious not interested in play tells your dog that you are a weak leader.

Cesar Millan talks exactly about a case like yours:
 
"Can a Dog Have Low Self-Esteem?
 
Growing up in Mexico, I had never heard the term “self-esteem” until I came to the United States. I thought it was a “touchy-feely” term for people with too much time on their hands. However, once I became familiar with my clients#%92 problem dogs, I realized that self-esteem can be a concern for both people and dogs.
Now, a dog#%92s low self-esteem could be misinterpreted as calm-submissive energy, but it#%92s not the same thing. A dog with this problem could be naturally submissive, but may exhibit aggressive behaviors. Fearful aggression is a symptom of low self-esteem because its objective is to be left alone.
To fix this problem, you need to teach the dog to trust himself. As the powerful, calm-assertive, and trusted pack leader, you can help your dog overcome specific fears by turn the negatives into positives. For example, if he is afraid of swimming, teach him how fun it is to play in the water. If he is afraid of yellow things, teach him to play with yellow toys. If he is afraid of bikes, teach him that when you ride the bike, he also gets to go for a satisfying run.
Every small success will start to build up his confidence. And remember, it#%92s not an overnight fix. Building self-esteem can take a very long time and require commitment and patience from the pack leader."

This is why dog parks aren't always the greatest idea.  Too many people stand around and chit-chat amongst themselves and don't pay any attention to their out of control dogs.  As your dogs pack leader, it's up to you to stand up for your dog and intervene if another dog is bothering her.  Many times I've seen harrassed dogs look to their owners for help while they're standing around gossiping with the other humans, not paying attention. 

I used to take my dog to the dog park everyday and I had the attitude that my dog has to be tough and take care of himself around other dogs.  When he'd come to me for help I'd just ignore him, thinking he'd learn to be tough sooner or later.  This is the wrong way of thinking and as a result my dog is always on the offensive now when it comes to meeting other dogs.  He acts first and doesn't look to me for help anymore because why should he when I ignored him in the past?  MESSAGE:  Playing is one thing, but don't let your dog get harrassed and bothered by other dogs.  Be your dogs calm, assertive pack leader.