Agility Update - Class Night #1 - Control

My answer would have been, "I'm sorry my dog is distracting you - Dave is helping me work on it."

Also, I would quietly ask Dave to intervene for you and make the other instructor aware of his game plan with you.  I do think it is completely inappropriate for one instructor to "yell" at another instructor's student.  The proper tactic would have been for the other instructor to speak privately to Dave about your dog being a distraction.
No one likes to hear incessant barking, but a good instructor should be able to discern that you were rewarding him for "quiet" and would also understand that it was as difficult for you as for the people being disturbed.  However, some would argue that a dog that cannot be quiet during distractions does not belong in intermediate agility, but back in general manners class, unless he just happens to be one of the dogs that only starts this stuff with all the motion present in the agility ring.  But, again, that is a decision between you and your instructor.  Just don't get so consumed with your agenda that you bypass basics. []

XEph - I feel your pain! My Am Staff had the same problem (and still does if he gets too amped up[sm=smack.gif] ). The upside is that it does get better with time and work! We do the same thing you do - calm down stays or we "drill" on obedience so he has to focus on something else.

When I got snide comments from other people, I would simply say, "Yup, that's what were working on. So sorry, I know it's annoying." It didn't leave people much room to be rude after that, and the bottom line is you are aware of the problem and are working to solve it. That's what we're all doing in class, just different problems with different dogs at different times.

Furthermore, if I was in an Intermediate class with you, it would give me one more thing to proof with my dog - staying focused and working even in the company of barking!

PS - Is your screen name a reference to Williams College?

Xeph,
 
I just wanted to say that at the agility event I attended a week ago, I saw quite a few dogs exhibiting behaviors similar to the one you described with Strauss.  The barking, and running up to the handler.  I never actually saw biting though. 
 
In reading the body language I noticed two things:  The first was that the dogs were highly keyed up.  I mean they were ON!  The second thing I noticed is that the dogs were frustrated.  Now whether they were frustrated by "flailing arm syndrome" or lack of speed on the part of the handler, I don't know.
 
I also noticed that the handlers seemed very edgy to begin with, as if they were really amped up or nervous. 
 
Most of the dogs were herding types (BCs and GSDs) but I also saw a black lab exhibiting that same behavior. 
 
I think it's possible that the dogs were responding to the handlers nervous energy.  JMO. 
 
I'm not saying that is what is happening with Strauss though, just letting you know what I observed at the agility trials.[]

PS - Is your screen name a reference to Williams College?

What?? Do we have more than 1 Eph here?? Did I miss that?

Xeph, I'm glad you weren't getting frustrated, because I think in that situation I would have been! I hope things keep going well for you guys with the new class... remember, baby steps! Just a little bit in the right direction does wonders. []

Is your screen name a reference to Williams College?

No xD  My screen name is the shortened version of an RP dragon character I use, named Xepherya.  Most people can't pronounce Xepherya, so I go by Xeph
 

I also noticed that the handlers seemed very edgy to begin with, as if they were really amped up or nervous.

Many are...especially when they're working for MACH points/double Qs.  Sometimes it's hard to tell who is frustrated, and who is just a fuss bucket, because I know a few dogs who scream on the course just out of sheer excitement, while others are mad at their handlers for not directing or moving quickly enough.
 
We don't have a "Genereal Manners" class.  It's Intro, Beginners, Intermediate I, and Intermediate II.  You progress through classes by how well your dog is doing on obstacles, not how quiet he can be.  He's doing well on his obstacles...when he can focus, thus we're in Intermediate II.
 

My answer would have been, "I'm sorry my dog is distracting you - Dave is helping me work on it."

That has been my answer for the most part, everytime somebody approaches me about it.  Doesn't shut them up.  They just start in with "I know, but..."  They just don't take the hint :-/
 

Also, I would quietly ask Dave to intervene for you and make the other instructor aware of his game plan with you.

I think I'll do that the week after next (Dave won't be there next week....bollocks).  People act like I don't know his barking and screaming is obnoxious.  Of COURSE I know!  I'M his handler!  I'M the one that has to try and break him of it!  I'M the one that has to deal with all the scowls and nasty comments.  All THEY have to put up with is 45 minutes of me trying to shut him up, and then they can go home >.<
 
By the end of class last night, I was absolutely EXHAUSTED.  We hardly did any work on the equipment because I was trying to hard to get him to shut the hell up.  He seems to think that the MOMENT I reward him for looking at me and being quiet, he gets to pop up and drag me towards the equipment.  He got really pissed that I wouldn't allow that, and I made him back up, and lay down, and be quiet again.  He's not comprehending that I say when we get to go run, not him.
 
We're FINE around and near the equipment, but the instant another dog steps onto the course and starts working, he has a royal melt down.  He can't stand it.
 
When I took him out of sight (at Dave's request, to see if he would chill out a bit), there was no improvement.  I took him away from both agility setups (one was indoor, one was outdoor), no improvement.  He'd just look at me and bark and scream.  I'd wait for him to be quiet for a millisecond, and he got a cookie if he was quiet and watching...and the moment he swallowed the cookie, he decided he could drag be back toward the agility buildings....I wouldn't let him, and put him back in a down, and it started all over again.
 
My hands were absolutely numb and sore by the end of class (we won't even talk about how bad my ankle felt), but we're trying.  I'm rather surprised I didn't get frustrated and cry...I really didn't feel anything but calm, but after yesterday, that whole "Project calm energy" thing, just doesn't work for me, because my dog didn't give a whit.
 
We'll get there, I know we will, but I'm going to explode if one more person tries to intervene with a way to "help" when I'm having enough trouble focusing on Dave and my dog.

Do tell.


"Dave is having me to some control exercises with him (i'll be happy to explain if you ask)"

Dave had me do simple things, such as calling him over the jump and only rewarding him when he was at my side and in heel position.  And he'd have me send him over a jump and call him back to me.
 
I use the word "simple" very loosely, because it's really not.  Strauss is wholly rewarded by the equipment, and couldn't give a flying fruck whether he really gets a cookie or toy from me or not.  He was highly rewarded when he did come back, but he is of the mindset that "Mom doesn't matter" and will take on obstacle, blow off my recall, and continue satisfying himself by taking other obstacles.
 
He's also of the mindset that "Wait" does not really mean wait in agility, as he broke his down stay several times and came over the jump on his own...and proceeded to run past me to take another obstacle.  He either isn't getting, or doesn't care that we have to do this thing together. :-p

I really don't have anything to add except I think that your trainer is on the right track.  I know that you have heard this many times before but patience and time.
 
Your dog reminds me of a friends GSD.  He is crazy in the ring also.  I have seem them running for over a year now and the dog is starting to get better and more focused but still a little crazy.  I figure they will get it as time goes on.
 

Some of what makes the dogs crazy is the visual - seeing the other dogs whiz by - it's hyperexciting.  Maybe a "calming cap" would help get him over the hump a bit - some people find it useful for the dogs who bark at every telephone pole while they are in the car.

Like Remedy Rescue or summat?  Because we've done that xD  I'm willing to try it again, I just don't want to end up relying on drugging up my dog to get him to chill (and I feel like I'm cheating a bit)

I know someone that made a set of blinders (like for a horse) for their sheltie because he would go nuts before going into the ring and getting too wound up and would just lose it during the run.
 

Can you use the obstacles as the reward?  I mean, that's what he wants right?  So you get a millisecond of quiet, send him over a jump, on leash so you can reel him in after he takes it.  If he really is that excited about the obstacles, use them as a reward.  If you have any at home or a way to have just ONE obstacle in the area, then do it off leash.  Otherwise, on leash so you can reel him back in to you.

Can you use the obstacles as the reward?  I mean, that's what he wants right?

We've thought about that, but Dave and I don't want to reward him for releasing HIMSELF to the obstacle, because that's exactly what he does right now.

He doesn't wait for the ok...he just does it.  And sending him over that one obstacle can start a whole downward spiral in his behavior.  Everytime Dave called us back to the group, and Strauss got to do a sequence (one or two obstacles), there was no hesitation on Strauss' part...he'd just start barking, take an obstacle, and then ZIP!  He was gone!  And he DRAGGED me to the equipment.  Nothing calm about it...we don't want to reward him dragging me everywhere either.

And before you ask..yup, he was on leash...and I couldn't snatch it, he was too fast.  I'm not like, disgustingly slow, but I'm sure not as fast as my dog, and short of me literally POUNCING on the leash, I don't know what else I could safely put him on xD

Oh the trials and tribulations of performance events.