Getting our dog comfortable with kids...

    • Bronze

    Getting our dog comfortable with kids...

     Our bichon-poodle mix is almost 2 years old. We got her from a rescue when she was a year old. Ever since we've had her, she's been very shy around kids. She doesn't bark and growl at them and she's never snapped at them, but when they come around and try to pet her she yelps and tries to dart away. I'm not sure what encounters she's had with kids in her first year of life, but for some reason she's terrified of them...what can I do to make her more comfortable around them?

    • Gold Top Dog

    Stop letting kids try to pet her.  Children should be very dog savvy before you allow them int he same room with her and then they need to sit quietly and not even look at her, even if she approaches them.  Slowly but surely she'll learn that small people are ok.  But, it's gotta be at her own pace.

    • Gold Top Dog
    One of the dogs I adopted didn't like kids (was afraid of them). So, what I did was take one of my nieces (I don't have kids of my own) and sit on the patio with me, my dog and my niece. My neice and I were sitting in chairs. We then carried on a conversation about nothing and while doing so my niece would drop treats (cut up pieces of hot dog) on the ground near her feet. I instructed my niece to not look at the dog or try and engage the dog in any way. Just totally ignore the dog and drop/toss treats. We did this a number of times and with my other nieces and their friends. Eventually we moved up to having my niece hold a piece of hotdog in her open hand so the dog could take it (open hand, palm up is key here). Again, no eye contact, nothing. From there we moved on to praising the dog, looking at the dog, engaging the dog. Now she is no longer afraid of kids. With my dog, since I have no kids, I periodically do the kid/treat thing just to keep her socialized. The thing with fearful dogs like this is you can't force them to accept petting and so forth. You help them build trust in what they are afraid of instead and you do that by letting the dog do this on its own terms. In other word, the dog chooses to come take the treat vs you coaxing it in. That builds trust.
    • Gold Top Dog

    What Glenda and Jewliee have said is GOLD.  The secret is SLOW SLOW SLOW.

    It can take an instant to create a shattering fear -- and years to fully desensitize it.

    We had a cocker whom we adopted to do pet therapy with.  When we SAW him, and met him, he was with a little handicapped boy and he was 100% the BEST with that boy.  But I found out later, little blonde girls were his undoing!!  It generalized to all groups of noisey/children and adults -- all this happened in about a week before we took him home.

    Ultimately the best success I had was with my vet -- he had a little blond girl daughter and she was THE most dog saavy kid I've ever met.  With her help we got him totally desensitized.

     But as the ladies above say -- it has to happen SLOW.  And it has to be on the dog's terms.  Don't approach and make eye contact -- just drop treats and DON'T be focused on the dog.  It may take many many sessions. 

    Quiet is better -- 1 kid is optimum -- more and you can be sunk.

    Remember -- little kids scream and holler and squeal -- all of that sounds VERY much like dogs playing.  It can be sensory overload for the fearful dog. 

    After one session like Jewliee mentions -- you move to a second session not much different -- IF the dog actually made contact the first time ... give her a few minutes of being NOT in the spotlight before anyone even holds out a hand with NO eye contact with a treat.

    SLOW is always better when desensitizing -- you can drop back a hundred steps  by pushing too much thereby un-doing all you've tried to do.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Bichons are not recommended for young children; only about age 10 and up.

     My Tasha can not be trusted around anyone under 3.5 foot tall. 

    Hope to see photos of your pupper soon! 

    • Gold Top Dog

    calliecritturs

    SLOW is always better when desensitizing -- you can drop back a hundred steps  by pushing too much thereby un-doing all you've tried to do.

    yes, this is very true.  Sometimes a dog will approach because it wants the treat but this doesn't necessarily mean the dog has overcome it's fear.  Reading a dog's body language can be tricky so doing this slowly is always best.  The very best way is to consult a qualified veterinary behaviorist.  Often one visit is worth every penny, especially when kids are involved.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Actually, only a super dog savy child should ever be left alone with any dog.

    • Bronze

     Ok, makes sense...we don't actually have any kids so the only ones she's around are neighbors so it may take awhile.

    • Gold Top Dog

    TaraRae
    we don't actually have any kids so the only ones she's around are neighbors so it may take awhile.

    We don't have any kids either.  I usually choose a neighbor kid who is between 8 to 10 years old.  It's pretty hard to find a random kid who has much knowledge about counter conditioning a fearful dog.  I'm lucky that I've always been able to find a few kids who are willing to help and follow instructions.   I'm known as the dog lady and often have neighbor kids ringing my bell to see if they can help me with my dogs or play with the dogs.  I am not shy about being firm with the kids about what they need to do and not do. 

    Until you've had a chance to help your dog to be comfortable around kids avoid them if possible.  The more encounters the dog has that create fear the worse the fear will become.  Fear becomes aggression, so be aware at all times and in control of the situation.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Freedom
    Bichons are not recommended for young children; only about age 10 and up.

    Why?  The reason I ask is that the breed is supposed to have a friendly temperment and make a good family pet.  You could say that many breeds or mixes aren't recommended for families with children under 10 but most properly socialized dogs are fine with kids who have parents who teach them the proper way to interact with dogs.  Most problems with kids and dogs are created or allowed to happen through ignorance of dogs. 

    • Gold Top Dog

     Some small breed are quite fragile and can be easily injured by a young child who is still learning how to control their own movements, strength, etc.  So that would apply to bichons, chi's, miniature and toy poodles, etc.

    Bichons as a breed tend to be very soft dogs.  Not all are, like any breed personality trait there are exceptions.  If a child yells at a soft dog, that could set you up for lots of remedial training with that dog.  Bichons are bred as companion animals, so they want to be WITH their humans at all times. That plus being soft, mix in a child and you may be fine, but most often we see that the dog develops an unreasonable fear of children, over some issue most dogs wouldn't even notice.

    • Gold Top Dog
    Freedom

     Some small breed are quite fragile and can be easily injured by a young child who is still learning how to control their own movements, strength, etc.  So that would apply to bichons, chi's, miniature and toy poodles, etc.

    Bichons as a breed tend to be very soft dogs.  Not all are, like any breed personality trait there are exceptions.  If a child yells at a soft dog, that could set you up for lots of remedial training with that dog.  Bichons are bred as companion animals, so they want to be WITH their humans at all times. That plus being soft, mix in a child and you may be fine, but most often we see that the dog develops an unreasonable fear of children, over some issue most dogs wouldn't even notice.

    Just about everything you say above confirms what I'm saying.  Dogs that fear children are usually created not born.  With a few exceptions almost every dog wants to be WITH their humans.   It's up to adults to insure that dogs and kids are interacting in ways that don't create fearful dogs or fearful children.  Saying a breed is soft or because a breed is small, is just an excuse, in my opinion, that people use to explain problems created by their lack of knowledge or foresight. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    What everyone else has stated is golden!

    However, if you need to desensitize her to smaller/younger kids, then it needs to be you that's dropping the treats and keeping them at a safe distance from each other. She needs to know that you won't let the kids do anything to hurt her.

    Jackson has grown up with my grandson. Jackson is now 2 and my grandson will be 2 in July. I still have a pocketful of treats for when they're together. Charles is getting better and better about throwing the ball for Jack (his favorite OMG game). Jackson is tolerant of his little boy and looks forward to playing with him. He can love on Jackson and Jack watches me. He knows I've got the treats.

    Charles throws the ball for Astra. Being a little dog, she's REAL good at moving fast out of the way. I make sure she has a safe place to get to if he tries to love on her.

    FYI, Charles isn't allowed near any other dogs, (including my other girls).  It's not worth it to me to get the other girls comfortable. All it takes is one wrong move, one slip of attention... Tina's too energetic and would hurt him trying to love him. Kali's a herder. Bree is jealous.

    • Gold Top Dog

     Don't be afraid to  tell kids no if they ask to pet your dog, or if they come up without asking, let them know that they cannot pet your dog. It is perfectly okay to say no to  the kids, and it is for their own safety that you should tell them no.

    Anyway, if the kid is savvy enough to ask to pet, and a little bit older, like 8-10 at a minimum, I will tell the kid no, but ask them to help train. I'd explain to the kid that the dog is a little bit afraid, but ask if they could take a treat and throw it, or hold a treat in their hand for the dog. Demonstrate for the kids exactly how they should do this before you let them, and be sure to carry really delicious treats. Also, be sure your dog takes food nicely. It's not fair to the kids to have them get their fingers eaten by your dog.