Fear of Children Update

    • Bronze

    Fear of Children Update

    About a year ago, I put up a post about my dog's fear of children and asking for advice. At that time, I have already enrolled a behavioural consultant who uses positive reinforcement training method. It's quite a journey and the result so far is progressing positively. I did not post much but came here regularly to learn. I would like to post something back about the results so far, so people can know that even behaviour modification will take a long time, there is indeed lights at the end of the tunnel. No matter of what kind of aggression issues you are dealing with, don't give up! I know there would be doubtful moment, but keep going. Also, if you have further advice for me, please let me know. This is my dog's story. He is a Newf, coming from a good breeder and we did all the socialization training. But then at the age of 6 months old, he suddenly was afraid of children. He would bark at them. So right away, we increased his exposure to children, took him to participate in Santa Claus Parade...and after this, the fear seemed went away. Then at the age of 13/14 months old, BOOM! The fear of children came back. This time was much harder to deal with, given his size. He would lunged at kids if he saw neighbour's kids playing in their backyard....if a kid came too closed, he would growl. To the point that it's so bad that I swore I would never take him beside a kid. We were looking for help. We have tried couple positive reinforcement trainers. They were ok, but not too effective. Then finally we got referred to our current trainer. It's like having Yo Yo Ma teaching you how to play cello. Also very lucky we scouted out a perfect location. It's a park beside a school yard with a chain link fence in between. We did A LOT of click and treat...and many things. We also always looked for opportunity that could add experience about "kids = positive things". Like about a month ago, my neighbour just got a new puppy. So I took my dog to walk with them and their two kids everyday. And this proves to be very good for him, plus the foundation works we have done for one and half years. After couple weeks, he got more and more relaxed among older children. The two kids, me and two pups just went for an off leash ravine walk. My dog would play with them, doing tricks, accepting petting. If you saw us, you would not guess this dog one and half years ago has severe fear towards children. Now, it is still a long road ahead of us. He is better with older children but toddlers/babies are still work in progress. And I still need to set him up for success and really play attention to each encountering....you don't want to have one bad experience and outdo what you accomplished in the last six months. My biggest learning through this is NEVER NEVER push the dog beyond his comfort zone, let him/her evolve naturally. And it will take long time, I started with my current trainer in November 09....now it's April 2011 and we just started seeing some results. It's not as sexy as watching those TV programs about how those dog kings transformed a dog within 3 hours. But behavioural modification using positive reinforcement WORKS!!
    • Gold Top Dog

    Thanks so much for the update.  You're experience is invaluable to others and your message is important on several levels.  I'm really happy for you and your dog.  Your efforts and determination have paid off and that's something that I've stressed to people who want results in a few weeks. 

    NewfieMom
    behavioural modification using positive reinforcement WORKS!!

    Yes, it does! :) 

    • Gold Top Dog

    Thank you for the update.  I just love newfie's.  We have a Bernese Mtn Dog that came to us fearful of lots of things and almost 3 years later he is sooo much better.  It does take time like in your story but it is so worth it!  We would love to see pictures of your Newfie!

    • Gold Top Dog

    Great update!

    • Gold Top Dog

    NewfieMom
    About a year ago, I put up a post about my dog's fear of children and asking for advice. At that time, I have already enrolled a behavioural consultant who uses positive reinforcement training method. It's quite a journey and the result so far is progressing positively. I did not post much but came here regularly to learn. I would like to post something back about the results so far, so people can know that even behaviour modification will take a long time, there is indeed lights at the end of the tunnel. No matter of what kind of aggression issues you are dealing with, don't give up! I know there would be doubtful moment, but keep going. Also, if you have further advice for me, please let me know. This is my dog's story. He is a Newf, coming from a good breeder and we did all the socialization training. But then at the age of 6 months old, he suddenly was afraid of children. He would bark at them. So right away, we increased his exposure to children, took him to participate in Santa Claus Parade...and after this, the fear seemed went away. Then at the age of 13/14 months old, BOOM! The fear of children came back. This time was much harder to deal with, given his size. He would lunged at kids if he saw neighbour's kids playing in their backyard....if a kid came too closed, he would growl. To the point that it's so bad that I swore I would never take him beside a kid. We were looking for help. We have tried couple positive reinforcement trainers. They were ok, but not too effective. Then finally we got referred to our current trainer. It's like having Yo Yo Ma teaching you how to play cello. Also very lucky we scouted out a perfect location. It's a park beside a school yard with a chain link fence in between. We did A LOT of click and treat...and many things. We also always looked for opportunity that could add experience about "kids = positive things". Like about a month ago, my neighbour just got a new puppy. So I took my dog to walk with them and their two kids everyday. And this proves to be very good for him, plus the foundation works we have done for one and half years. After couple weeks, he got more and more relaxed among older children. The two kids, me and two pups just went for an off leash ravine walk. My dog would play with them, doing tricks, accepting petting. If you saw us, you would not guess this dog one and half years ago has severe fear towards children. Now, it is still a long road ahead of us. He is better with older children but toddlers/babies are still work in progress. And I still need to set him up for success and really play attention to each encountering....you don't want to have one bad experience and outdo what you accomplished in the last six months. My biggest learning through this is NEVER NEVER push the dog beyond his comfort zone, let him/her evolve naturally. And it will take long time, I started with my current trainer in November 09....now it's April 2011 and we just started seeing some results. It's not as sexy as watching those TV programs about how those dog kings transformed a dog within 3 hours. But behavioural modification using positive reinforcement WORKS!!

     

    I remember your post (I forget most of these kind of posts, but because it was a Newf and they are usually good about kids, it stuck in my head, I guess) and that you had already engaged a behavior pro to work with you.  I'm so glad things are improving, and very glad that your dog has such a committed owner.  You are totally right about the fact that dogs are not very often transformed in three hours, and positive reinforcement ROCKS!!!   You deserve a high five for being willing to learn and follow through for your dog.  Yes

    • Gold Top Dog

    I think its great that you've put so much time and patience into working with your dog.  I think that regardless of the outcome time spent with your dog is never wasted. 

    That said, I would never chance a child with any dog that has any sort of problem history with kids.  I just feel that it is not really necessary.  And, a dog can still be unpredictable at the end of the day. 

    I guess I just don't understand this confidence people seem to get after training.  Sure, I'm sure he is doing GREAT-don't get me wrong.  But, great enough that I'd put my friends 2 year old in front of him???  I just don't understand it. 

    Maybe Anne can shed some light or someone? 

     

    • Bronze
    You are absolutely right that for dogs that have any past behavioural issues, people need to be extremely careful. What I learn in the last two years with my dog or any dogs that I know has a bit of problem is avoidance is not the best way to deal aggression issues. Because no matter how much you tried to avoid contacts with children, somehow trouble will find a way to get to you. (I called it the Big Mighty Thumb Down) During this period, I have came across few uncontrolled situations that I totally know if I did not do all this children training (in the school, on the street, etc), the outcome will be different. It's like insurance. We kept on banking positive bucks in my dog's account just for that emergency situation. I can assure you that I take a lot of precautions in my dog's day to day interaction with any children. The two kids that became my dog's walking buddy, it does not happen overnight. I started walking with her mom and the oldest kid (13 years old). After few days of walking, then just the girl and me when her mom was busy. Then we did a bit of off leash in the ravine (I lived in the country side). Then we introduced the second youngest (8 years old)..repeat the process. They have a younger sister (6 years old) and we dropped her in here and there when we did on leash walk on the street. But when it comes to children that he does not know. I only allow them walking with us. Key is never force an interaction. I would not suggest anyone rushing out to do it without any professional help. The trainer and I regularly reviewed our progress. We even created multiple "escaped" strategies if one day we got cornered... Sorry if you feel that I give people too much "bravery to rehab dogs with children fear. Not my intention. I stressed that there's still a LONG road ahead of us. But having going thru the ups and downs in this "rehab" period, I know how other doggy parents would feel when dealing with aggression rehab. I think it's a good idea to post a positive outcome as a bit of encouragement. But thanks for your feedback.
    • Gold Top Dog

    willowchow

    I think its great that you've put so much time and patience into working with your dog.  I think that regardless of the outcome time spent with your dog is never wasted. 

    That said, I would never chance a child with any dog that has any sort of problem history with kids.  I just feel that it is not really necessary.  And, a dog can still be unpredictable at the end of the day. 

    I guess I just don't understand this confidence people seem to get after training.  Sure, I'm sure he is doing GREAT-don't get me wrong.  But, great enough that I'd put my friends 2 year old in front of him???  I just don't understand it. 

    Maybe Anne can shed some light or someone? 

     

     

     

    I must say that, while I do think dogs can learn to tolerate some kids, and even do well with them, it's really not a good idea to chance their behavior with other people's kids.  It's also a good idea to not have children at dogs' eye level (so that you minimize the possibility of a face bite), and you must supervise all interactions and never leave a child alone with a dog, even a friendly dog!

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    NewfieMom
    Sorry if you feel that I give people too much "bravery to rehab dogs with children fear.

    That is not what I said.  But, good luck to you as you continue. 

    Anne, thanks for your reply too.

     

     

    • Gold Top Dog

     Any time, Lori.  Always glad to help.