Tug and gripping

    • Gold Top Dog

    Tug and gripping

    I'm looking for suggestions on how to get abbie to grip harder when we tug. She has a great grip for tugging on the frisbee, probably because we've been doing the frisbee thing since she was a baby. However, she has a soft mouth / grip on everything else. The purpose behind this is that I want to use tug for the end of the game in sar and a frisbee is hard to carry around.

    It is not that she is not interested in tugging. She is. she just doesn't put the umph in to it unless its a disc.

    Recently I got her a rope toy and have started to work on that. She loves it, will get all growly and grip it, bring it back to me if I let go etc. But she's not all holes barred tugging. She's mostly just mouthing.

    So I guess what I'm trying to get is more tug drive. In sar, after making the find, she is self rewarding by "crittering". I need to nip that in the butt right now so it doesn't become a problem later on. So I'm looking for a game of tug to be more rewarding than crittering. Make sense?

    • Gold Top Dog

    In my experience the rope toys have actually been the least desirable and the most likely for the dog to get chewy or just not tug.  Most dogs like material such as French linen, it's also a "softer" tug for them to grip.  Nikon is a monster so for me a two-handle is a must.

    With some dogs there is too much conflict playing tug so they kind of back off when it comes to that.  To work on that, I would be back tie the dog on a harness and attach your tug toy to a leash and just tease the heck out of the dog, go crazy with that tug *just* out of reach until the dog is NUTS and then jump in, let the dog get a grip, back off, and tug with you holding the leash rather than being in the dog's face.  This builds drive and puts some distance between you and the dog.  You can work your way in, and I do it with my body turned sideways.

    I'm not sure how much this really matters but with the GSDs we don't like to reward or encourage a poor grip, like a frontal grip.  Often a dog will strike that way especially as a puppy so we just kind of hold the tug dead for a split second allowing the dog to "set" the grip by getting more of a mouthful and then we tug that.

    Make sure the dog wins!  If she gives you a pull or two with a full grip, let her have it, praise and clap.  For some reason I find clapping makes a big difference!  My boys will prance back to me with the tug in their grip if I'm clapping, which is what I want to see, them bringing the toy back and pushing me for more.

    Some dogs (like Nikon) prefer the ball.  Don't get me wrong, Nikon will work for *any* object that I deem "live" (stick, old towel...) but above all else he values the medium Gappay ball on a string.  It fits in the pocket and works for tug and fetch.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Like this, but with whatever toy you settle on.  He's more confrontational than you would be at first, but he gets the dog crazy, then offers a bite, and then you can see how he backs off and tugs with the leash.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkAz5budrdM

    Quit while the dog still wants more (like kick or drag the tug inside out of sight with the dog still tied).

    • Gold Top Dog

    Liesje

    Make sure the dog wins!  If she gives you a pull or two with a full grip, let her have it, praise and clap.  For some reason I find clapping makes a big difference!  My boys will prance back to me with the tug in their grip if I'm clapping, which is what I want to see, them bringing the toy back and pushing me for more.

    Lol Kirby loves clapping too and over the top praise like he just saved the world from the evil tug toy.  One of his highest drive tug toys happens to be his rope toys, but then again I never leave any fabric toys down long after playing because distructo mouth will rip anything into pieces and I'm not made of money.

    One thing I thought of is they make fabric/floppy disk toys and that might be a nice transition for her from a hard disk toy to different styles of toys.

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    • Gold Top Dog

    Krissim Klaw
    One thing I thought of is they make fabric/floppy disk toys and that might be a nice transition for her from a hard disk toy to different styles of toys.

    I had the same thought

    what about a wubba? Most dogs seem to love them

    or a pelt on a string?

    One of those unstuffed toys?

    I would look for something that as you say can be in your pocket but that is also the type of toy she likes.

    Bugsy will tug on anything - including the shoe you are still wearing Stick out tongue so this is a tough question for me LOL

    • Gold Top Dog
    I have use our floppy frisbee at the end of searches before and it works but because we have played with it other times its not a jackpot like I would like. I'm looking for something totally new although if I have to I will work on raising the value of the floppy disc.

    The hard frisbee is the ultimate toy for her and she will ignore anything if she knows I have it. That's the drive I want.

    I like the idea of attaching something to the leash or something on a rope. Right now I have a new unstuffed squeaker bear soaking up scent in the food bin. However, I'm thinking this isn't going to do it. For lily or neiko this would be awesome, for abbie probably not so much but will try it. In the mean time I will try the drive building lies suggests.

    • Gold Top Dog

    In Schutzhund it's very popular to train with toy rewards, and often a dog comes along that doesn't really express that sort of drive.  The protocol is basically two weeks of minimal interaction with the dog besides doing the back-tying and teasing.  No other toys or rewards.  Make the dog crazy to interact with you with that toy.

    I don't mix food and toys (like using toys with food in them or soaking toys) because that's two different drives - hunt and prey.  You don't really want a mix of them at the same time because the dog keying in on the food isn't going to get as high in prey drive.  Once a dog has developed the drive for the toy, then I often use food and toy in the same session but not at the same time (like I'll start with perch work using food and then end with heeling using a ball).

    Nikon used to not care for balls and now he is so obsessed with his Gappay balls I have to use them less.

    • Gold Top Dog

     

      These are excellent articles about building drive, getting dogs "into" tugging and selecting the right motivational toy for your dog:

    http://www.thedogathlete.com/playing-with-prey-drive/

    http://www.thedogathlete.com/choosing-toys/

     

    • Gold Top Dog
    Great articles, thank you!