New dog nipping at kids

This is not a fear or dominance or aggression issue, it's a combination of age, breed, and previous circumstance.  Most dogs that end up in the shelter have had very little training and proper introduction to manners like not using teeth on humans.  The dog is still a puppy so it will likely exhibit all sorts of obnoxious puppy behavior.  Most of the time, that's really all this is, obnoxious puppy behavior.  Puppies, especially a breed like a heeler that is known for being rather tenacious and using their mouths - use their mouth/teeth to play, get attention, get their point across, etc.  Dogs like this often have very high prey drive as well.  Kids move fast and are often "squealy" sounding and can trigger that prey drive.  The best advice I have is to communicate to the dog that the behavior will not get what he wants without punishing/correcting, and then offering a suitable alternative.  GSD puppies are very nippy/mouthy and although mine were not, I've been around plenty that are and when they nip at me I say "ouch! no no" and redirect the dog onto a tug toy or a chew.  I don't think the time out works really well because dogs can't really process that a behavior completely normal to them got them landed in time out for ten minutes. Also if the puppy has a lot of energy, he needs an outlet for that like some toys he can chew or tug.  If he has high prey drive you can make a flirt-toy by getting some scrap of old towel or burlap (or even a small toy) and just putting it on a long, strong string so you can drag it around and let the puppy chase it (avoid sharp angles and keep it on the ground with young puppies).  Like this:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw_qsqWGCFg  or this  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9TqyYy_kLo

Thanks for the suggestion.  Now I'm even more confused though.  I agree that the breed mix may be partially to blame, but I'm not so sure that it's just "puppy" behaviour.  He has never done this around any adult, only kids.  He has plenty of toys to chew, and for the most part has even learned already which are his vs. the kids by us redirecting him.  He chews constantly which I understand is his age and totally fine with me.  Also, the issues at hand are never during play of any kind.  For example, my daughter walked behind him while he was eating (I know I shouldn't let her by him while he's eating at this point, my fault) he turned and nipped her.  My son laid his head (gently) on the dogs shoulder while he was laying quietly he sat there for a few seconds, then nipped.  My daughter was walking next to him not touching him or looking at him he nipped her.  He will also stand in front of the kids so they can't get to me.  I think it may be more of a resource gaurding, or when he's tired, but maybe I'm wrong....some of the situations that doesn't really fit either.  I think your comment about him using his teeth to "get the point across" is definitly valid, so is it best to redirect this to something more favorable?  How do I do that? At this point he nips, the kids back off, so it works for him, what would be a suitable alternative?  Thanks again for the help!!

Breeds that herd tend to herd children much more so than adults.  As for redirecting, with really young pups I do a gentle "uh uh, no bite"  hand them a toy "THIS is for you to bite" and then praise the heck out of the pup for biting it instead of me.  The same can be very effective with a somewhat older pup as well.  I would strongly discourage you from ever holding his mouth shut...that can be a game to a dog, and in his mind...hmmmmm, I nip, mom plays her holding my mouth game.  OR he can cause some real agression because, after all, who likes to have their mouth held shut?  I'd suggest putting a 3 foot rule into effect with the kids.....they should stay out of his personal space until he is far more comfortable with having them closer.

Thanks for adopting!

 I would start by treating this dog like a young puppy. It can be hard to do with a dog of this age because the normal expectation is that he’s old enough to know better.  We expect a lot of dogs and it takes time and consistent, successful, reinforcement of wanted behaviors to see lasting changes. It’s most probable that he’s had little or no training.  I wouldn’t allow him any freedom that wasn’t closely supervised and on lead.   NILIF is helpful.   Training is an ongoing process and everyone needs to be on the same page and consistent.   I can understand your frustration but I think you might be expecting too much, too soon for this dog.   Have you read any of Jean Donaldson’s books or Patricia McConnell?   Just about any of their behavior books might be very helpful.  Good luck and I hope you stick around and let us know how things are going.   

Thanks everybody.  I am trying to be as understanding and patient as possible, and with all issues other than the biting I think I am, but I can't let my kids safety be compromised either.  I'm pretty comfortable in all areas of dog training with the exception of biting.  I've just never dealt with it before. 

 I am still working with him in hopes that it will continue to improve.  I have ordered two books, but haven't received either yet.  He has made improvements in the two weeks we've had him, but it is just exhausting making sure the kids aren't in his space at the wrong time, or that he isn't getting "grumpy".  My kids are young, so getting them to understand they can't just go pet the dog whenever is tough.   

 One other question I had:  Once he is OK with my kids and I can trust him to not bite them, do you think he can be trusted around other kids too, or will that be a problem I will be facing in the future?

amurr

but it is just exhausting making sure the kids aren't in his space at the wrong time, or that he isn't getting "grumpy".  My kids are young, so getting them to understand they can't just go pet the dog whenever is tough.   

That's the beauty of a crate. :)  He can be in a safe place and you don't have to worry about the kids when you aren't actively supervising.    

A dog this age with young kids is quite a challenge, especially a herding mix.  It's not what I would recommend for most families with young children.  Shelter dogs can be wonderful pets but many do have behavior issues that require intense training and commitment.  

What books did you order, if you don't mind saying?

I agree that maybe the cattle dog mix was a bad choice at this point.  I just didn't think that much about it since our last dog was the same, and was fine.  Also, strangely enough he doesn't "herd" the kids much.  If they run he may follow, but no nipping then.

The books I ordered are Mine, & The Cautious Canine......I hope they help.

amurr

The books I ordered are Mine, & The Cautious Canine......I hope they help.

I'm sure they will be of help. 

I'm happy to report the new dog is doing MUCH better.  At this point if we wouldn't have had issue previously I would totally trust him.  YAY!!

 great news! thanks for the update

Jewlieee

great news! thanks for the update

ditto! :)

amurr

I'm happy to report the new dog is doing MUCH better.  At this point if we wouldn't have had issue previously I would totally trust him.  YAY!!

I"m going to say something a bit different than the rest.

Obviously some of your issues have been resolved and good guidance does a lot.  However ... I would urge you TO remember:

This dog is a herder.  He is a herder.  He ... HERDS.  It's what he does.  Nipping is -- for a CATTLE dog -- the way they inately herd.  (if it's bigger than you, you run like heck - nip their heels - run faster to 'turn' them or keep nipping to 'drive' them away)  -- if you REALLY don't like what someone does nip them -- they back off, THAT works. 

So ... you have to understand SOME of this was just plain no manners and wrongly getting the idea that the end justifies the means.  HOWEVER -- don't forget ... please .... he's a .... HERDER.

Did I mention this dog IS A HERDER??

He's always going to be a herder.

AT some point above you asked if this will always be a problem -- with other visiting children (neighbor's etc.).

**IT CAN BE** -- he can learn in your family that your "kids" are above him in pack order and that he needs to not 'nip' when he tries to move them.   

 (when someone comes up on you while you're eating you DO want to 'move' them away from you ... nipping worked -- it's simply herding behavior applied wrongly -- a natural thing more "natural" for this dog that he'd learned to utilize)

Please please don't think you have this licked and just step back thinking it's resolved.  Because it probably isn't.  He will learn more appropriate ways of dealing ... he'll learn what you do and don't want him to do ... but he'll always have some herding drive.

Give up? Absolutely not - you've come a long way with him.  Just realize that you can't stop a herder from WANTING to herd any more than you can expect a bassett beagle not to "sniff" or a spaniel not to "SNIFF" or a pug not to be ebullent!!  It's part of what they are.

Nope -- because a good herder can be an awesome dog and he's obviously responding to what you're already doing. 

Suggestions -- give him a herding "outlet".  A herder HAS to herd.  But you can train it and enjoy it.  Give him things TO herd 'safely' (it's a lot like teaching a dog to 'bark' to teach them NOT to bark.  Give him things to do (that are natural for him) so he CAN do it, get some of it out of his system and get praised for it. 

Take a bucket and half a dozen tennis balls -- THROW them in the air and tell him to "get" them.  For every ball he brings to you he gets a high value treat.  And ANOTHER when he drops it IN the bucket.  Then ... let your kids do this "game" -- he gets to "perform" and he sees the kids as feeding hands.

But always be very very cautious when neighborhood kids are around.  YOUR Kids will learn how to deal with the dog.  But other kids? Not so much.  "Can we get Poochie to pick up the balls so Joey and Suzie can see???"

SURE -- but *you* go outside with them.  You can then use these other kids to further train the dog. 

The books mentioned above are SUPER books.  They will help you fine tune what you've already taught -- clickers are awesome to help you actually pinpoint a behavior to reinforce it. 

I had a corgi/sheltie mix for 19 years.  The first half of his life he was the most neurotic dog I've ever known.  Because *I* didn't know how to deal with him.  Once I began to understand this whole "herding deal" it brought me a new relationship with my dog.  It changed OUR lives -- I was able to teach him to ride in the car without major anxiety -- he eventually got his CGC and became a therapy dog for children in hospitals.  Yes!!  Same dog. 

I'm not saying you haven't done a good job - it's OBVIOUS you have -- but don't stop there.  It's toooooo easy for some dumb kid down the road to come in who decides to "taunt" the dog (to make him bark or whatever) and BLAM -- nasty kid gets bitten and YOU get a lawsuit. 

Don't let it happen -- despite how "easy" your earlier dog was -- this one may be an even better dog simply because he's drivey enough to want to DO something.  He just needs an outlet to 'do' the right things.  That game I mentioned is only one thing -- you can invent 100.  (you have kids -- if the DOG can pick up his toys ... hey, how much mileage can you get out of THAT one??? *smile*  "Clean your room -- or do I just send Poochie in and let HIM pick up everything on the floor????";)