Sawtooth Pack

    • Gold Top Dog

    Sawtooth Pack

    I saw a documentary today about the Duchels (sp?) and how the introduce wolves back onto Sawtooth Mountain, Idaho. They created a pack with a male and female and her new cubs. The female would run off. One of the male cubs become alpha and even the adult male accepted the younger's alpha status.
     
    Eventually, a pack structure did develop. An omega female became alpha female at the alpha male's choosing. A beta male was baby sitter and teacher, sometimes spending more time with cubs than the alpha female.
     
    One of the other omega females would try to sneak in to get a bite off of the carcass at feeding time. The alpha male would attack and pin. And would do this as many times as necessary. Other times, during play assume a position of dominance to reiterate the roles. Others would submit readily.
     
    Some of the middle wolves would jostle for rank. But the alpha male decided who got to eat in what order. And omegas always eat last. But, when re-homing the wolves to a Nez Perce Apache reservation, the alpha would not lead into the new area until the entire pack was together, including the omega male, his brother.
     
    With the humans, who only approached and lived with the wolves on the wolves' terms, they were totally friendly and would greet them with licks. Mrs. Duchel was allowed by the alpha female to enter the den and view the cubs at 3 weeks.
     
    Though wolf confrontations rarely ended in death or severe injury, there was no doubt who was boss and it involved physical power and control.
     
    So, the wolves did not view the humans as part of the pack but they did not view them as enemies but more as friendly apes they could visit with sometimes.
     
    A couple of implications, to me. There is a pack dynamic. It can be fluid at times and certainly changes with the introduction of a new member. The humans did not try to be alpha. The wolves interact in a subtly different way with humans than they do with each other. For example, the wolves did not try to be alpha to the humans. Also, perhaps, human canid interaction is different than just acting like an alpha dog. For the wolves, human language is just so much buzzing and groaning. Body language means everything. And wolves howl to communicate. Barking is only seen in a confrontation. But it was also easy to see how wolves could have led themselves to domestication by being friendly with friendly humans. Even with the alpha male, there is a bond between canid and human. Good, bad, magical, whatever, it is there.
    • Gold Top Dog
    With the humans, who only approached and lived with the wolves on the wolves' terms, they were totally friendly and would greet them with licks...


    I haven't seen that film, but I watched a documentary about Yellowstone, and scientists also had to approach wolves *on their* terms... Then, they were friendly, and as scientist put it, when they submit, they totally submit - you can pretty much do whatever you want... So, scientists took measurements, fitted collars while wolves where quietly laying down, etc. We don't expect that from dogs don't, we? "You are in our world, you do things on *our* terms..."

    There is a pack dynamic. It can be fluid at times and certainly changes with the introduction of a new member. The humans did not try to be alpha...


    But humans do, sort of, wait on the 'approval' to approach... Like I sad it before, I don't think wolves and dogs think of one of them as being "Alpha" (the way we think about it) - because they can't think of their own status in relation to other member's status. They just can't self-reflect. They've just learned that they make decisions here and there, they initiate this and that, and there is a coalition - that's what we, humans, call "alpha" or a dominant status.
    • Gold Top Dog
    The Sawtooth study was very interesting.  There are two documentaries (I believe on it- Living With Wolves and Wolves at our Door) and a gorgeous book on it (The Sawtooth Wolves ([linkhttp://g-images.amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/05/fb/a87ea2c008a0a3a5d92b6010._AA240_.L.jpg]http://g-images.amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/05/fb/a87ea2c008a0a3a5d92b6010._AA240_.L.jpg[/link]), also a book called Living With Wolves) Gorgeous photography in the first book. ([linkhttp://www.livingwithwolves.org/photos/mac59.jpg]http://www.livingwithwolves.org/photos/mac59.jpg[/link])

    (Going off memory, I don't have the Sawtooth Wolf book with me) The study was done in the 1990s and I believe all pack members except perhaps Amani and the pups have passed since then.  What they did was they took captive bred wolves and introduced them to a 25 acre area to better understand wolf pack dynamics.  There was never an idea to release these animals, only to study their behavior.  They hand raised the four puppies for a time, then introduced them to the two adults, Akai and Makuyi.  Makyuyi was blind and had to be removed and Akai was too unpredictable, so they removed him so they could better study the younger pack members.  They observed an alpha emerge- Kamots and an omega- Motaki.  Motaki was killed by a mountain lion and Lakota became omega.  Eventually they had to remove another puppy that kept getting in fights with other wolves from the pack and they introduced three more puppies- Amani, Matsi, and Motomo.  They also introduced three more pups down the road- Wahots, Wyakin, and Chemunkh.  Chemunkh and Kamots eventually had a litter of three and then the wolves were moved to the Nez Perce tribal lands. 

    It was very interesting to watch the interactions, but I love the photography in the book better.  It captures a lot of wolf behavior unlike any other book due to the close proximity that the Dutchers had to the animals.  And some of the wolves as individuals were the most gorgeous wolves I've ever seen. 

    They use footage from the project all the time on basically any Animal Planet or Discovery Channel wolf program you can think of. 

    [linkhttp://www.amfphoto.com/portfolio/images/nature/A43E4433_wahots.jpg]http://www.amfphoto.com/portfolio/images/nature/A43E4433_wahots.jpg[/link]
    [linkhttp://www.betawolf.com/2003_matsi.jpg]http://www.betawolf.com/2003_matsi.jpg[/link] (Matsi, my personal favorite)
    [linkhttp://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B00004REVR.01._AA280_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg]http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B00004REVR.01._AA280_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg[/link]
    [linkhttp://www.markadler.com/notes/images/wolves2.jpg]http://www.markadler.com/notes/images/wolves2.jpg[/link] 
    [linkhttp://www.wildsidenews.com/dutcherhands.jpg]http://www.wildsidenews.com/dutcherhands.jpg[/link]
    [linkhttp://www.livingwithwolves.org/photos/mac26.jpg]http://www.livingwithwolves.org/photos/mac26.jpg[/link]
    [linkhttp://imagesource.art.com/images/-/Jim-Dutcher/Napping-Gray-Wolves-Photographic-Print-C12081614.jpeg]http://imagesource.art.com/images/-/Jim-Dutcher/Napping-Gray-Wolves-Photographic-Print-C12081614.jpeg[/link]
    [linkhttp://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/NGSPOD/125696~Two-Gray-Wolves-Touch-Noses-during-a-Tender-Moment-Posters.jpg]http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/NGSPOD/125696~Two-Gray-Wolves-Touch-Noses-during-a-Tender-Moment-Posters.jpg[/link]
    [linkhttp://www.wildsidenews.com/dutcherjamie200.jpg]http://www.wildsidenews.com/dutcherjamie200.jpg[/link]
    [linkhttp://www.wildsidenews.com/dutcherjim200.jpg]http://www.wildsidenews.com/dutcherjim200.jpg[/link]
    [linkhttp://www.svguide.com/w02/w02wolves9.jpg]http://www.svguide.com/w02/w02wolves9.jpg[/link]
    [linkhttp://www.svguide.com/w02/w02wolves6.jpg]http://www.svguide.com/w02/w02wolves6.jpg[/link]
    [linkhttp://www.svguide.com/w02/w02wolves8.jpg]http://www.svguide.com/w02/w02wolves8.jpg[/link]
     
    One of my favorites:
    [linkhttp://www.biologie.uni-hamburg.de/b-online/library/bio201/wolfpack01.gif]http://www.biologie.uni-hamburg.de/b-online/library/bio201/wolfpack01.gif[/link]
    Looks like Amani, Matsi, and Kamots howling together.
    • Gold Top Dog
     
    because they can't think of their own status in relation to other member's status.

     
    This I don't agree with...
     
    Even animals such as deer... are aware of their own size and strength without testing. Even down to something like antler size...a spike buck will submit without even testing a prime buck...how does he know that buck is older or bigger than he himself is? Unless he is aware of his own status in general, and his own rack size in particular? The only jostling is among deer of similar size and weight, same said for to the death fights, which is why they are rare.
     
    A large buck will come...show himself to a smaller when both are trailing a doe, and he is not tested...the other deer gives way...because he is aware somehow...of his own status and rack or lack thereof.
     
    Even cattle have status within a herd, horses as well...and it is minded by all...everyone is aware of their place in the scheme of things.
    • Gold Top Dog
    x
    • Gold Top Dog
    Even cattle have status within a herd, horses as well...and it is minded by all...everyone is aware of their place in the scheme of things.


    I sure think dogs are quite aware of their status. But I don't think dogs think of it in terms of "I look bigger and smarter than you, therefore I'll be doing X, Y, Z "... that to me requires too much abstract thinking - comparing and contrasting... For dogs dominance and submission is about here and now, as in: "I'll just go ahead and try doing X,Y,Z, and see how you'll react."

    When dogs test one another, it's not necessarily noticeable to us - it ca be a very sable ritual.
    • Gold Top Dog
    There is a pack dynamic. It can be fluid at times and certainly changes with the introduction of a new member. The humans did not try to be alpha. The wolves interact in a subtly different way with humans

     
    This is an interesting book to read.  Just can not help but feel as thought the wolves were exploited. Esp the end where Jim and Jaimie gave the wolves over to another group.  It seemed like they wanted to move on in their own lives and abandoned the pack, which they were part of. 
     
    I love the animals.  The interactions with the Dutchers were beautiful.  The creatures are strong, wild, intelligent, kind, organized.  "Fluid" is definately an excellent description. 
     
    The book fills in a lot of information left out of the movie clip.  I know the Dutcher's have a strong appreciation for the wolves, just wish they had kept the responsibility of them in their own court...
    • Gold Top Dog
    Something else I remember from the film. The omega male was actually bigger than the alpha male. As others will not, being alpha is not always about size. It is about attitude.
    • Gold Top Dog
    In the film, the reason the pack was re-homed on the Apache reseveration is because the land they were using on Sawtooth Mountain was actually under lease and the lease was expiring. The move was to protect the wolves against poachers and irate farmers.
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: ron2

    In the film, the reason the pack was re-homed on the Apache reseveration is because the land they were using on Sawtooth Mountain was actually under lease and the lease was expiring.


    Yes, and if you were going to undertake the raising of wolves it would be essential that you would not have a plan that only went half way.

    Another big problem with this is that they were actually hands on and the involvement was to the point that the humans were considered part of the pack.  Which does not seem conducive to being observed as how wolves would behave in a normally wild condition.

    This is to me the attempt to use the wolves for a story, photo ops, and yes, to learn about them.  As much as I love this story, my heart was pained to see what transpired later in the story.  I know that the Dutchers must have felt pretty helpless when they were cut out of decision making and the kind of involvement I think should have been maintained.  But it was their own fault for not having  a complete plan where legally they could keep that.    The chips just fell where they did as they had little foresight and planning about the entire lifecycle and dependency of wolves in albeit a large wildish type area, but in captivity none the less.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Yes, and if you were going to undertake the raising of wolves it would be essential that you would not have a plan that only went half way.

    Another big problem with this is that they were actually hands on and the involvement was to the point that the humans were considered part of the pack. Which does not seem conducive to being observed as how wolves would behave in a normally wild condition.

    This is to me the attempt to use the wolves for a story, photo ops, and yes, to learn about them. As much as I love this story, my heart was pained to see what transpired later in the story. I know that the Dutchers must have felt pretty helpless when they were cut out of decision making and the kind of involvement I think should have been maintained. But it was their own fault for not having a complete plan where legally they could keep that. The chips just fell where they did as they had little foresight and planning about the entire lifecycle and dependency of wolves in albeit a large wildish type area, but in captivity none the less.

     
    Excellent points. They should have started out on the reservation. The reason for gaining the trust of the wolves was so that they could live in close quarters and observe behaviors one does not often see with a truly wild pack.
     
    But the other problem is beyond their control. That is the public perception of wolves as something bad or to be exterminated. They are a valuable part of the ecology and as a nearly apex predator, fulfill a valuable role in the survival of the fittest for herds of ungulates and small animals. A herd is strengthened if the old and weak are killed off. Just as a pack is strengthened if trouble makers go away.
     
    I think, for most people, the defining treatise on wolf behavior comes from the work of L. David Mech.