Dog Community

How Dog Training Transcends Learning Theory - Ian Dunbar

Posted : 10/13/2010 2:12:53 PM

Science-Based Dog Training (with Feeling): How Dog Training Transcends Learning Theory

September 23rd, 2010 by Dr. Ian Dunbar

"I have spent the past few years puzzling over why dog training is no longer working that well. Today there is much more management and less reliability than 10-plus years ago. Far too many dogs develop behavior, temperament and training problems and so are surrendered to shelters in a day and age where we have more knowledge than ever.

"There is so much that we used to do in the 80s and 90s that we are no longer doing. Consequently, nowadays, far more dogs are fearful of people, reactive to other dogs and unreliable off-leash. Puppy classes are seldom taught off-leash and so, adolescent classes are seldom off-leash and so, as soon as dogs reach adolescence, socialization grinds to a halt and aggression problems appear. We must go back to training off–leash to ensure that socialization continues and that owners are taught off-leash verbal control independent of training aids."

To read more, click on the link above.

LCK

Angelique

Posted : 10/13/2010 3:33:47 PM

I just read this a few days ago and am happy to see Ian's comments. Even though he has been put up as the head of positive reinforcement based training, there is plenty he has said over the years which supports all quadrants of OC. Even though he is the founder of the APDT, I've never found him taking the stance of the "positive only" followers who tend to support only two of the OC quads, villify the PP quad, and don't believe in telling a dog "no". I have a friend in the APDT who has said that the more extreme members of the "truly dog friendly/never say no" movement have caused a huge rift in the APDT and have taken the organization in a direction she feels Ian never intended.

Glad to see Ian step up to the plate and refer to social corrections in a bio-feedback sense. This is where many trainers see a difference between a social correction and/or information and pure Positive Punishment which is an evironmental punisher. What's the difference between the two? A social correction is done between members of a social group who are working together to help each other survive. An environmental punishment (Positive Punishment in OC terms) has no cooperative investment in the animal it punishes. His "yelping" to give a puppy bio-feedback that they are mouthing too hard is a good example of this, but in a strictly OC sense, the yelp could be seen as adding a noise aversive which decreases the biting behavior.

I've actually only got two bones to pick with Ian these days. One is in "socializing a dog like crazy" in the "we have to meet and greet as many dogs and humans as possible" rather than teaching the dog to ignore, keep moving along calmly, and not expect a greeting due to the repercussions of Classical Conditioning in programming a dog to expect a greeting. This can often lead to excitement at the sight of another dog or human and boundary frustration as a result of this conditioning. Not to say there should be no "meet and greet", it just needs to be more selective and not all of the time. And secondly, his off leash stance, when nearly everywhere you bring a dog in public does require a leash.

ron2

Posted : 10/14/2010 7:38:31 PM

I didn't read it that way. What Ian is talking about is that differential rate works better than constant reward. And most any postiive program, including clicker training, suggests backing off to DR as soon as possible. He's not all of a sudden into collar pops and "alpha rolls." He's talking about what some call the slot machine approach. Sometimes, you get a reward. Sometimes it's a little treat, sometimes it's a steak. Other times, it's play.

What he is also saying is that dogs must be socialized with other dogs as soon as possible, off -leash and to not rely in corrective equipment such as special collars and halters, like the infomercial of the guy and his collar to train the "perfect dog."

And it's funny that Ian should now say this. Just a few years ago he did an ad for a corrective harness and said that he wasn't bothering to train his dog any more in how to behave on a walk because he used this equipment. Well, which is it now?

I agree that the benchmark for true training is off leash handling. So, can the owners of the korean Jindo walk their dog off leash? Probably not. In fact, one might say that Ian is trying to get people away from the collar pop thing. After all, off leash means you can't pop a collar. How do you do that? Well, the dog has to feel that doing what you ask or behaving in a nice way is preferrable to other things. He didn't advocate physically slamming the dog down, either.

So, his article is not a rejection of food treat training. It's a rejection of constantly lobbbing food at the dog, who then learns to perform only for the the time it gets treats. With a variable schedule, the dog is likely to perform correctly more often because of the gamble. In fact, this works better because dog mentality is "more is better." (Thanks to Chuffy for that phrase.)

miranadobe

Posted : 10/14/2010 8:05:42 PM

Angelique
two bones to pick with Ian these days. One is in "socializing a dog like crazy" in the "we have to meet and greet as many dogs and humans as possible" rather than teaching the dog to ignore, keep moving along calmly, and not expect a greeting due to the repercussions of Classical Conditioning in programming a dog to expect a greeting. This can often lead to excitement at the sight of another dog or human and boundary frustration as a result of this conditioning. Not to say there should be no "meet and greet", it just needs to be more selective and not all of the time. And secondly, his off leash stance, when nearly everywhere you bring a dog in public does require a leash.

Both major bones, the first one being my real displeasure. The part I highlighted above seems to be a major theme in the general population of dog owners and it seems the training philosophy to "meet and greet everything" has, well, if not "caused" the condition (which I think we can say there's a plethora of causes to this), then certainly played quite a role in it. Chicken/egg? I think perhaps we're looking at the egg in the form of "puppy socialization classes".

ron2

Posted : 10/15/2010 5:31:02 AM

miranadobe

Angelique
two bones to pick with Ian these days. One is in "socializing a dog like crazy" in the "we have to meet and greet as many dogs and humans as possible" rather than teaching the dog to ignore, keep moving along calmly, and not expect a greeting due to the repercussions of Classical Conditioning in programming a dog to expect a greeting. This can often lead to excitement at the sight of another dog or human and boundary frustration as a result of this conditioning. Not to say there should be no "meet and greet", it just needs to be more selective and not all of the time. And secondly, his off leash stance, when nearly everywhere you bring a dog in public does require a leash.

Both major bones, the first one being my real displeasure. The part I highlighted above seems to be a major theme in the general population of dog owners and it seems the training philosophy to "meet and greet everything" has, well, if not "caused" the condition (which I think we can say there's a plethora of causes to this), then certainly played quite a role in it. Chicken/egg? I think perhaps we're looking at the egg in the form of "puppy socialization classes".

That's a good point, too. So, do we let the dogs "work it out" or do we not allow certain things, ever and when a wrong behavior crops up, do not ever allow it to go unadressed? I tend to go with the latter, probably because I am a control freak when it comes to domestic animals under my care and responsibility.