Male/male aggression and neutering.

Beejou

I suppose it ISN'T true that multiple intact males can't get along.

Multiple males can get along, but it really depends on the dogs.  It is not something that I would personally recommend, but some people are able to manage multiple intact males without issue.  (or, if there are issues, they don't speak of them) 

He is young yet so things might change later on.  He's old enough to reproduce but a male GSD I wouldn't consider really "mature" until 2.5-3 years old.

Which dogs Nikon likes, which he hates, and which he couldn't care less about depends more on how they treat him than whether they are intact, or what gender, or breed. For example my friend's dog is about Nikon's age and also an intact male yet our dogs go to training together weekly and ride in the car together, often licking each other through their crates.  We also share rooms for shows and trials and during training we usually do our obedience flights together.  We don't let the dogs play but as far as training and being in close quarters when we travel, they couldn't really care less about each other.

Right now I have no plans to neuter Nikon and will be getting another male.  If they do not get along, I won't be neutering them as a "fix".  I have nothing against neutering but right now I'd rather save the $300 and use it on training fees or some new equipment :)

 Liesje, what would you do as a "fix"?  Just keep them separate? Obviously only if you needed it, but just curious.

 I agree with Amanda and Liesje, it depends on the males.  I would also agree with Liesje, that TBone is still a puppy, and how he responds to other intact males now may or may not be how he reacts at 3 years of age.  The Weimaraner is very similar in that they take longer to mature.  I would never let Logan run with another intact male (over 12 months) freely to "play" all it takes is a bump, and you have a dog fight.  I don't think this makes them aggressive animals, either.  I'm sure Logan would be fine with most males, it really depends on how they act towards him (I've had very similar experience to Lies with him even licking/trying to play with another similarly aged intact male Rhodesian Ridgeback at class) ... but, it takes one bump, or a bitch in the picture and you could have a dead dog. Just not worth the risk.

 It also depends on the breed.  You will have less problems with some breeds (ie. Labs). Age is also a factor you have the most problems with similarly aged animals.

 It is my advice to those who've asked, to have your Weimaraner male neutered by 18-24 months if you want to keep yourself from having potential future male/male problems.  Logan's now 3 and has been bred, so even if I neutered him now odds are I may have future problems.  For males that may be used at stud, I've suggested collection and nuetering :) 

I just heard from a friend who has a 6 year old neutered (past stud-dog) and her current 3 year old (current stud dog) got into a terrible, terrible fight last night..... it started with a bump.

T-Bone is definitely going to be fixed, as soon as I get to Florida. I think you guys are definitely right, it depends on the dog. It was just a cosmic alignment today I suppose, and it was really a great day at the park. I personally don't think I could handle living with two intact males,  I *would* be afraid of a fight because I am not terribly confident in my experience and skills with training and obedience. Don't get me wrong, my dog is a good dog, my other dogs were good dogs, but it's not a challenge I think I would be up for personally. Liesje,. you work dogs so it makes total sense to have multiple intact dogs. I'm just a casual "owner". I spoke with T-Bone's breeder about what I should do when I add a second dog, and she agrees. T-Bone might have different opinions when he's fully grown, and there's nothing to say another GSD or Doberman, when I add one, will not change HIS mind about T-Bone when future dog matures. She strongly cautioned me against two males, and intact basically out of the question. Definitely not considering doing it or even keeping two neutered males because of my breed preferences, but I was totally impressed with everyone's dogs today.

It does depend on the dog, and the situation. Males generally fight over specific things, so if those things are not in the environment, you may never see aggression crop up and dogs may live totally happy lives. Also, if the household is managed well, and both dogs have clear rules and understanding, of course intact animals can coexist and get along. Testicles don't *cause* aggression - that is a myth. What they *can* do is increase arousal more quickly, and affect how easily a male gets aroused in the environment. It's what a male dog does with this arousal that matters - some dogs lose control and aggress, others do not. And what a dog does with its arousal is a result of both training and personality (genetics), not testicles.

Neutering will only curb male aggression if the aggression is hormonally-based. That is important to remember. It is not a magic cure-all, and rarely is it a total *fix*. There are many types of aggression that won't at all be curbed by neutering, or may only be affected a little. If you have two males competing over an intact female in the home - yes, that type of aggression can be almost totally dissipated by neutering. If you have a male who resource guards food, or space, or who is fearful of other dogs - neutering will have little to no effect, for example. Sometimes, too, people will use *intact* as an excuse for rude behaviour on behalf of their dog, instead of just training behaviours that are appropriate, which is unfortunate because it puts makes all intact animals look jaded.

Zipper is still intact at 7 years old and will likely not be neutered unless for a medical purpose. My next male I want as a pup will also not be neutered, and I won't have plans to do that either. Zipper gets along equally well with neutered and with intact males. For him it is precisely the behaviour of the other dog and level of dog-manners that it shows him.

Sera_J

 Liesje, what would you do as a "fix"?  Just keep them separate? Obviously only if you needed it, but just curious.

Yes, I'd keep them separate.  I might do more separation with the new dog anyway, even if there aren't problems.  Nikon has a very close bond with my other dogs, which for him is great because I always intended for him to be my companion and "fit" into the pack.  He and Coke are night and day as far as temperament but the best buds, they share a kennel when they go to the boarding farm.  I have more of a specific purpose for the new dog, and won't require it of him that he mesh well with the pack.