Boxer/Lab, 1Year-Random Attack burst on Older Lab/owner

    • Puppy

    Boxer/Lab, 1Year-Random Attack burst on Older Lab/owner

    I have a 1 year old Boxer/Lab puppy, with 8 year old lab/aussie mix, both Females.  The Puppy, Abbi, joined the family last June, very full of energy and very smart.  Trouble started when she was about 6 months, I was out of town and my Wife walked by the puppy (chewing a bone with wagging tail) and pet her with her foot and told her she was a good girl, moments later Abbi jumped up and bit her on the arm, Then Nothing.  Calm, happy, as if nothing happened.  We thought it was aggression over her bone, and the anxiety of me being gone (for a week) as I am her closest family member. 

    Let me say, she has fun playing with our older Lab, Zoi. They play, sleep, eat etc. together, and Abbi is almost over-submissive at the park with other dogs, plays well, loves the ball, no issues.  As time progressed, she has started to do the same with Zoi, out of no place they just get into vicious fight.  I can separate them (both about 70lbs), my wife cannot.  It seems to be so night and day, one moment Abbi is fine, then next, she is bolting towards Zoi and attacking, they are broken up and momets later, Abbit is fine again.  Zoi avoids her, keeps her distance and eventually, she relaxes and all is normal.  We went to the Vet, he felt it was anxiety related and offered medication.  We have had Abbi on xanax, but that seem to just knock her out, but does not have any impact on the attacks. 

    Fast forward to today.  Over this weekend, the occurrences have gotten worse.  They will be sleeping together, even with Abbi using Zoi as a pillow, then they get up and mvoe around the house and suddently Abbi's hair is up, her ears are back and she is pacing, looking at Zoi (who is doing NOTHING, just laying on the floor), and will then go up to her and attack.  Watching, I have intevened this weekend before the fight, but even with me holding Abbi, having her sit down, she is still in aggression mode, hair up, literally shaking, and eyeing Zoi, then, finally, a few minutes later she is calm and all seems normal again (other than Zoi not being apprehensive to go into the same room with Abbi).  This happened Friday night, Saturday was OK no issues, then Sunday Morning and again Sunday night. 

    We are to the point of having to put her down, as I can't in good conscience re-home this type of behavior with both dog and human attacks.  Is there anything anyone knows or can recommend??  By the way, we don't crate the dogs (never have through 6 dogs all lab mixes) never had a problem, never had attacks, this is a first and with apparent cause, although, I wonder about the possibility of in-breeding. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    tjinator
    looking at Zoi (who is doing NOTHING, just laying on the floor)

    The way you describe it sounds like the Boxer just has a loose screw BUT some times for the untrained eye there is more to see like the other dog's body language. Just takes direct eye contact from the other dog to trigger an attack who can percieve it as a challenge.

    She is getting into the unruly teenager years where she is trying to figure out where does she belong inside the pack. Yes, dogs do live in the moment, they can get intoa fight and literally 1 minute after they are just totally fine, like nothing happen because they dont dwell about it, they get over it that fast.

    I recommend that you have a behaviorist going to your house so he/she can point out what body language you are missing. Your wife must start participating in the training because the doggie might see her as an equal, not as a leader.

    Start with NILIF while you wait for the behaviorist:

    http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm

    It seems that you were lucky on getting prior dogs that were not that difficult to deal with but this might be a reality check, there are dogs that will develop behavioral issues if not trained or you dont satisfy their needs.

    Do you exercise her whatsoever?

    • Puppy

    Thanks for this insight.  To answer some of your questions....Yes, my wife was and is participating in training, she is home with them all day while I work.  We have trained Abbi well, listens, comes, sits, she knows here boundaries, and most has been more with my wife than me and Abbi probably listens to her better than I.  Abbi gets lots of exercise, every morning 30min at park, lots of running with ball fetch until she finally lays in front of me instead of bringing the ball back to me for another throw.....My wife takes her for the same in the afternoons, and many times with other dogs in the afternoon, playing friendly together, no issues, plus our two dogs play together during the day in the yard. 

    We have watched for the signs of subtlety from Zoi that is possible to provoke, in one case this weekend, Zoi was laying on the floor in the back bedroom, Abbi was laying on the floor in the living room, as I walked back to the bedroom, Abbi followed, she then bolted past me around the corner into the room and charged Zoi who had her head down resting on the floor and presumably was asleep (did not see for sure) before Abbi insighted the attack and Zoi reacted, so not sure that Abbi saw anything before the event took off.  It's almost as if Abbi senses or has the predisposition for the attack before entering the room (not the first time this has been the case).  I do agree, it is hard to tell with the subtle clues/body language, as the most common postion for Zoi is at rest.

    Thanks for the NILIF link, have not seen this exactly, but have read about and used this for Abbi, as she was a very relentless play with me non-stop earlier as a pup, bringing toy after toy to our lap as we sat and nudging to play play play.  It worked very effectively to improve her action, but admittedly, we are probably not as diligent as we should be in this area.

    • Gold Top Dog

     It sounds as though your resident dog has to put up with a lot from the newcomer, and it doesn't sound very fair.  (Sort of the same thing as if your wife one day brought home an additional husband who was a jerk to you.)  If they are fighting, and there are injuries, or this is escalating, it's very dangerous, since both dogs are female.  They don't call it "bitch fights" for nothing.  Bitches can, and do, kill one another on occasion.  Males are more likely to fight ritualistically.  Age one year is late adolescence for some dogs, age of social maturity for others, and when fights between house mates are more likely to develop.  As to the new dog, are you certain that she is a Boxer mix, or could she be a Pit or AmStaff mix?  The reason I ask is not because I dislike those breeds, but because some of them do have a significant tendency toward dog to dog aggression.  She sounds like a pushy dog (otherwise she would not "nudge, nudge, nudge" you to make you play - which, if you did it, only served to reinforce her assumption that she was in charge of that resource (you, or the toy, or both).  Better if the both the initial interaction as well as the cessation of play had come from the human end of the equation.  In any case, you really need help from a behaviorist before this escalates.  You can find a qualified behaviorist at the Animal Behavior Society web page, or at the IAABC page.

    Jumping up and biting your wife's arm may have been the result of resource guarding - can't say without having seen it, but dogs can guard other things beside food (people, toys, space, paper, you name it).  And, it's very difficult to prevent them from guarding things, especially space, from another dog, even if you get the guarding under control when it comes to humans.  I would not allow these two dogs to have special items in one another's company at this point, unless you are 100% certain this is not a food/toy guarding issue.

    • Gold Top Dog

    When the younger dog gets in her attack mode -- can you EVER get her out of it? 

    My concern is this could easily be some seizure type of activity -- rather than simply sedating them for 'anxiety' -- I'd love to see you have her evalutated by a vet who does TCVM (traditional Chinese veterinary medicine -- literally acupuncture does awesome things for any sort of seizure/neuro activity and the Chinese herbs are pretty much as effective as seizure meds without the side effects.

    I would definitely say to contact the behaviorist -- but it can be a really fine line to discern where "behavior" ends and a health problem (that doesn't look 'health-related';) begins.   Given the gravity of the situation and the unpredictability I'd surely wish you would speak to a TCVM vet who would ask you the right questions to discern if this could be a physical thing. 

    http://www/tcvm.com -- That's the Chi Institute and on the left hand side there is a locator  by both state and zip code.

    Your regular vet may not identify this as seizures -- and their only recourse would be to "try" phenobarbitol or potassium bromide (both of which are immediately addictive and have huge side effects).

    Please feel free to email me if I can help in any way.