Guess who's staying around for a while

espencer

Hopefully trainers like Jean Donaldson and Patricia McConnell will drop their differences against Cesar and realize this is just too big for them to fight back instead of cooperate.

espencer

Hopefully everybody will just dedicate themselves to the dogs and cooperate without looking over their own shoulder to see what other behaviorists are doing "wrong":

Paige is spot on.

I'm happy in a twisted sort of way.  This development could very well result in more clients for me - very important when one is starting a new business after a move.

stardog85

This development could very well result in more clients for me

That is a very good point, thats a good way to see the glass "half full"

Why does it have to be this way?  Why must it always be the "them vs us" mentality?

Makes me sad to see these attitudes.

glenmar

Why does it have to be this way?  Why must it always be the "them vs us" mentality?

Makes me sad to see these attitudes.

Amen!! 

Espencer, I appreciate your take on this, however, there is still an alternative way of looking at this, i.e. that Cesar will actually learn something from people like Donaldson and McConnell, because of his participation.  For one blogger's view of the flip side:

http://www.dogstardaily.com/blogs/last-days-pain-training-are-upon-us

I know you probably won't agree, but as you can see, I think the positive people will be staying around for a while, too.  

It doesn't need to be.  In fact, I believe a lot of "us" are on the "them" side, too, which makes a lot of these "us vs them" feelings unnecessary.  We don't need to be divisive or go down that road.  I personally don't enjoy the smugness that comes with divisive efforts, and realize that education is based in a desire to learn.  I can't "educate" anyone who doesn't want to learn.  Let 'em hang in the wind.

spiritdogs

Espencer, I appreciate your take on this, however, there is still an alternative way of looking at this, i.e. that Cesar will actually learn something from people like Donaldson and McConnell, because of his participation.

I agree, that would be awesome too, he has some graps from it and has used it a couple times but I'm sure if for example Ian Dumbar goes as well they can combine ideas

I for example will go to a seminar from Nicole Wilde on April who is well known to be "positive only" trainer regarding her book about healing energy for dogs.

I didnt like the guy in your link too much (i saw this link attached to the article from your other thread), i thought he was too much over the top saying that Cesar could learn something on the symposium but not that the other trainers could learn from him as well. Sounded almost like a trial instead of a symposium

No doubt that everybody will have to attend the meeting with an open mind

Thats why they say "The brain is like a parachute, it only works when it's open"

espencer

spiritdogs

Espencer, I appreciate your take on this, however, there is still an alternative way of looking at this, i.e. that Cesar will actually learn something from people like Donaldson and McConnell, because of his participation.

I agree, that would be awesome too, he has some graps from it and has used it a couple times but I'm sure if for example Ian Dumbar goes as well they can combine ideas

I for example will go to a seminar from Nicole Wilde on April who is well known to be "positive only" trainer regarding her book about healing energy for dogs.

I didnt like the guy in your link too much (i saw this link attached to the article from your other thread), i thought he was too much over the top saying that Cesar could learn something on the symposium but not that the other trainers could learn from him as well. Sounded almost like a trial instead of a symposium

No doubt that everybody will have to attend the meeting with an open mind

Thats why they say "The brain is like a parachute, it only works when it's open"

I'm not a devotee of that blogger per se, just happened across it because I subscribe to Dog Star Daily.  I'm glad you'll be going to see Nicole - I don't know if you remember, but she was a member here for a little while.  The more seminars you attend, and the more classes and workshops you attend, the more you learn.  I don't know if Dunbar will be there at that conference, but I can tell you that I learned something from one of his videos this week that was useful for my adolescent dog classes - I tried it out, it worked beautifully, and so I'm incorporating it in my curriculum.  Never stop learning is my motto, and I hope it will be Cesar's too. 

Just curious, how would you feel if CM had a change of heart and revamped his style?  He would certainly not be the first person to have done that.  There's a trainer coming to my place in April to hold a scent games workshop who used to be a Schutzhund trainer - now she's a clicker trainer.  So, how would you view a shift in the philosophy if it came directly from the person you emulate?

spiritdogs

Just curious, how would you feel if CM had a change of heart and revamped his style?  He would certainly not be the first person to have done that. 

I know this question was directed to espencer but I would have to say having watched CM's show for many years now, he has revamped his style IMO. Now it may well be the type of dog issues he features now are less 'red zone' and more main stream requiring a less aggressive approach. I have seen him use very 'positive' training techniques with some of his clients -  ie pocket full of treats!  I personally found his early episodes more entertaining than practical, probably because I was never dealing with a dangerous or aggressive dog. Now I feel he offers some good insight and practical solutions for the more common run of the mill doggy problems. I am not a 'follower' of any one trainer or philosophy. I think one can learn something from all of them and hopefully they can learn from each other as well.

Anne, I would be interested in your response to the same question regarding some of the Positive Only trainers. 

spiritdogs

Never stop learning is my motto, and I hope it will be Cesar's too. 

Just curious, how would you feel if CM had a change of heart and revamped his style?

I know he has said before that he does not stop learning as well. This symposium is a sign of it. Now that i remember he worked in a training facility when he got to USA after being a groomer, i dont know how much he learned there but he might know a little bit more than what we think. He said that in his opinion the dogs were still not balanced and thats why he opened his own business, thats why i dont think he would do a 180 type of change.

He has revamped his style already like denise said, i remember him using corrections on a terrier afraid of a motorcycle engine on season one. Now on season 6 he worked with a dog that was attacking the mailman's motorcycle and he combined treats and corrections (and from those corrections most of them were voice corrections only). If you can check it out:

Season 1

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/dog-whisperer#tab-Videos/02487_01

Season 6

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/dog-whisperer#tab-Videos/07628_00

Before this season 6 episode i worked with Chuck and his resource guarding doing the same, leash corrections were not working so i combined both, click and treat and voice corrections. In 3 weeks Chuck was not "diving" for food that was falling on the kitchen's floor anymore

I used treats for potty training and create training. I used corrections against "street prey drive". I use treats when i bathe Chuck because before he hated it and corrections didnt work, with treats he tolerates the bathing. I used voice corrections for counter surfing, i can leave his own food in the counter and he just sits and waits for me to come back.

I think that I'm a 60% corrections and 40% positive person. From the 60% corrections, 40% were non physical and 20% were. I said "were" because i hardly need to do repeat them these days

I think my 40% positive is more than what Cesar is but he is getting there as well.

denise m

Anne, I would be interested in your response to the same question regarding some of the Positive Only trainers.

I would interested as well, what if if all those positive trainers come and say "corrections work better for some instances"

It is my impression that the BEST trainers have all the tools in their toolboxes but choose to use the "gentlest" methods first??  Perhaps I've misunderstood, but as positive as Anne is, there was not one word of disguist or disappointment in me for using a prong on Thor.

^ That's how I am - I have a ton of tools in the toolchest but always start with the ones most likely to fix a problem yet "first do no harm".

And some people like chocolate ice cream but i rather vanilla . My wife likes to watch CSI Las Vegas but i think is boring. I have Jews friends but i rather to be Catholic. It's all about personal preferences and i dont think my wife and Jews friends are better or worse than me just because they like things that i dont. To each their own