Took Simba to puppy class tonight...

griffinej5

I agree that you need to start looking for somewhere else. Maybe see if you can check it out before hand to see if the new place is ok. You should see if APDT.com has any trainers in your area.

Punishing a dog for perfectly normal behaviors, like growling at other dogs to warn them to back off, can become something dangerous. It may teach him to skip the growling, and start with the things that would typically come after the growl, up to and including biting.

Exactly! I already started looking for other places. 

punkchica321

Oh I didn't say this at one point, the girl that I guess is more the receptionist more so than anything, was walking by when Simba was growling at another dog for getting in his face and hit him on the nose with a toilet paper roll lightly and told him to knock it off. I did NOT like that either. <_<

Had that happened with one of my guys, there would have been some serious "knocking it off" going on.  Nobody, & I do mean NOBODY punishes my dogs.

IMO, using a trainer like this, for a puppy, is setting you up for problems as the pup matures.  I would tell the trainer that I don't believe in the methods that they use, & that I would like part of my money back, as I have no intentions of returning to her class.  In the future, it is wise to talk with trainers about what methods they use before signing up for their class.  I also like to go & watch a class without my dog before signing up with them.   

You have to be your dog's advocate at all times. No one corrects my dogs without my permission and if someone walked by and swatted my puppy there would have been hell to pay.  I wouldn't take my puppy back and I would call and tell them exactly why.  I know that a big part of the problem is that you don't actually have complete control of what happens to your puppy, since your mom is paying the bills.  Learn a lesson from this experience. 

I'm confused why the trainer would allow the dogs to be jumping in each others' faces and then punish them for doing so?  IMO play time and training should be different.  Many classes offer play before or after which is all fine and good if that's what people want, but during class it is time for training.  My trainer would intervene if she saw owners letting their dogs jump in other dogs' faces.  It doesn't matter if they are puppies or not, I'm paying money to be there to train and not untangle leashes or make sure my puppy's not getting bullied.  Puppies are small, this sort of thing should be easy to manage without having to punish a puppy.

Liesje

I'm confused why the trainer would allow the dogs to be jumping in each others' faces and then punish them for doing so?  IMO play time and training should be different.  Many classes offer play before or after which is all fine and good if that's what people want, but during class it is time for training.  My trainer would intervene if she saw owners letting their dogs jump in other dogs' faces.  It doesn't matter if they are puppies or not, I'm paying money to be there to train and not untangle leashes or make sure my puppy's not getting bullied.  Puppies are small, this sort of thing should be easy to manage without having to punish a puppy.

 I was thinking the same thing. Why are these puppies being allowed to jump at each other to begin with?

 I would always prefer to see playtime in a puppy class done after the class and in a very controlled way. I have taught and been to all sorts of puppy classes over the years. What I noticed is when you have play time before class, it creates dogs who come into the building overexcited, dragging their owners and totally focused on the other dogs - not very good things for the puppies to be learning. Some dogs from classes like this develop an overstimulation issue with other dogs that becomes a problem as they progress through training and the dog gets older. You don't want puppies to learn that other puppies are the most exciting thing ever. I like the playtime after the class, afer the puppies have settled and been focused on their owner. In an ideal class the owners would ask the puppy to do something and casually unhook their leashes, so that it takes them a minute to even realize they are free. And I like to use it has a training situation with lots of calling the puppy back, having them sit/sown for treats then letting them play again. This helps enforce the recall from a young age, allows you to control the puppy's access to play and helps the puppy learn to reorient to you. There are certain puppies that I feel should skip play time, at least while certain behaviors are going on. These are the puppies who are already overexcited by other dogs and are already very "dog oriented" and the puppies who are shy and hide from the other puppies. I am on the fence about APBTs playing in a group, even as puppies. Not because I am worried they will attack but because over the years I have seen APBTs go from friendly to dog aggressive due to exposure to group play - it seems with some group play triggers the dog aggression and there is no way to know which it will have this effect on. If that is the case, than I'm not sure it is a good idea to expose them to it even as puppies. I feel owners and instructors should be very watchful of interactions and step in whenever things get too rough, one puppy becomes the target for one or more puppies or when one puppy seems stressed with the play. If the playtime is being done with the goal of socialization it is extremely important that the experience is positive for the puppies. Too often group play becomes a free for all and when that is the case, it is better to not participate.

 I picked out a training school for one of my puppy people in another state that looked really outstanding and others seemed to respect. They signed up for puppy classes and I was not happy to hear that there were 30 other puppies in the class (three instructors) and they did group play with the puppies. Their puppy was overwhelmed and developed a fear of other dogs IMO due to this class.

I agree, I don't have a problem with supervised socialization but it's just not for me.  I need to be in control of my dog, the socialization, and the environment.  They are socialized by me finding friends with good natured dogs and us getting together privately, people and dogs I know and trust.  For me, part of socialization is also learning self-control, learning to work near dogs but not always running up to greet them (and people too).  I'm just not into the free for all type socialization, plus that sort of thing gets my dogs so hyped up, focusing on training (or just working on focus!) is impossible.  Often the jackpot reward for a good training class is going out to the fenced back area and letting a few dogs loose, but that is after class and only when and with whom I decide.

Liesje

I'm confused why the trainer would allow the dogs to be jumping in each others' faces and then punish them for doing so?  IMO play time and training should be different.  Many classes offer play before or after which is all fine and good if that's what people want, but during class it is time for training.  My trainer would intervene if she saw owners letting their dogs jump in other dogs' faces.  It doesn't matter if they are puppies or not, I'm paying money to be there to train and not untangle leashes or make sure my puppy's not getting bullied.  Puppies are small, this sort of thing should be easy to manage without having to punish a puppy.

I have to say, I did puppy class with Luke that was run in the style of the Sirius puppy training classes (videos can be seen at dogstardaily.com)

I did not know this was the style of the class, but I had been there before with other dogs. They just recently made the switch to this type of class. Either way, bullying wasn't allowed, and when it was time to do some training, you didn't let your dog be a pest. If we could manage it without leashes, it can certainly be done with leashes on.

punkchica321

Yeah especially when he was just trying to get them to back off and they wouldn't listen. It wasn't his fault for trying to just stand his ground. 

Among many things already highlighted by others here, what bothers me is if this happened during the class and the trainer didn't give a good lesson to the other owners/handlers about keeping their own dogs out of the faces of other dogs.  Granted, a puppy class often involves play time, and this very well could have happened then, but the swat from the receptionist was uncalled for.

Another place to search for good trainers to investigate: http://canineprofessionals.com/Public/FindAProfessional.aspx

They have an article from Martin Deeley on how to choose a trainer: http://canineprofessionals.com/Public/ContentPage.aspx?PageID=1151

 Makes me want to call about the class Zoey is going to attend, I almost want to request some sort of outline. Just becuase its at the vet's or associated with it, doesn't necessarily mean it'll be a good class. I hope you find another for Simba.