Teaching Fetch

 Good luck with that!

oranges81

 Maze will chase the ball then that's it.. She won't grab it, won't bring it back.. Nothing.

Cheyanne is like that. She'll look at me and it's like she's saying "here it is come get it."

Joker's the first dog I have owned that will play fetch. He's still the only dog I own that plays fetch and I have 5 dogs! Now how messed up is that?

Your just gonna have to get another dog.

 Kitty, I responded on the other board....

Liesje

 Kitty, I responded on the other board....

I saw that! Lol.. Thanks.

kle1986

Your just gonna have to get another dog.

I'm working on that. Lol. Alex wants a Mastiff and another JRT.. We just need a bigger yard. 

 I have a herder, so if it moves, bye. She usually will chase it and not bring it back, but sometimes she will. Shes easily distracted. Has to know everything thats going on.

 Maze sometimes herds. But when it comes to fetch, she'll chase the ball then ignore it. So she's got the first part of the game down. Lol.

I think fetch is a game that some dogs enjoy (to an obsession...) and some dogs don't.  You can't force fetch on a dog, outside of treating it as an obedience exercise.  Do do that you would need to backchain.  First treat the dog for looking at the ball in front of you.  Then treat the dog for interacting with the ball.  Then treat the dog for picking up the ball.  Then place the ball a little further away and treat the dog for bringing it a few feet -- etc. etc. etc.

MAYBE the dog will eventually find joy in the game -- but maybe not.  Not all dogs like to fetch and find the game stupid.  Maybe they'd rather play with a flirt pole/squirrel on a stick?

Luke didn't start to fetch until he was about 6/7 months old -- Then one day he started on his own and now he will literally run until he dies if I don't stop him.  Kaiser has good days and bad days -- he figured out the game by watching Luke, but he's not always interested in playing.  Sometimes he'll bring it back, sometimes he'll just run around the yard with the ball in his mouth, or sometimes he'll chase after it and then leave it.  He really likes it when I throw the ball low to the ground so that it goes skittering across the grass -- whereas Luke prefers that I launch it high and far.  Pay attention to that sort of thing, too -- I'm guessing JRTs would prefer the ground chase.  Still no guarantee they'll bring it back, though. 

KarissaKS

I think fetch is a game that some dogs enjoy (to an obsession...)

Apollo fetches to an obsession. Seriously. He gets so worked up that he's literally shaking, whining, and teeth chattering when waiting for the ball to be thrown. Sometimes he can't even drop the ball- it's like his jaw locks up on it from being so hyped up. He will run himself to death. Not sure if you saw my thread about how he got hurt; Chuck It! w/ my 11 year old brother and friends. He will jump off a 100 story building after a ball.

My first Lab, would not retrieve. She wouldn't even run to the toy thrown. She didn't like water either, lol.

KarissaKS

I think fetch is a game that some dogs enjoy (to an obsession...) and some dogs don't.  You can't force fetch on a dog, outside of treating it as an obedience exercise.

I agree.  I originally replied on another board but I said I really don't see the usefulness of backchaining for fetch.  It is useful for formal retrieves in obedience, but as for fetch, I think it's a fun game based on the dog's drives.  I think it *can* be developed, but not really by backchaining.  The way I see it, the toy must be the reward, not clicking and giving treats for fetching the toy.  To me that's not fetch, that's a retrieve.  Nikon did not come with a lot of ball drive and did not care to fetch.  However we have built his ball drive to pure obsession and he will now fetch until he passes out with exhaustion.  There was no obedience involved other than training the out, which was only done last week Friday (and he has been fetching for months, but I use two balls or get him off the ball myself).  Basically I started out with back-tying and using restraint to build the dog's drive and frustration for the ball.  Once he transfered drive to the ball, I started the fetch game on a long line so I could "reel" him in to me.  Now he understands that the game is no fun if he grabs the toy and runs off.  Because of his SchH training I had to wait to train the out, but for Maze you can also start with that right away, using a trade method (two of the same toy), or making the toy be "dead" (no more tug and movement, then say "out" when she drops it and immediately make it "alive" again).

Just about any dog can be taught to enjoy fetch but it's much harder with a dog that doesn't have at least some natural prey drive.  Put a long line on the dog and reel her in once she has the ball in her mouth.  If she drops it along the way, don't say anything, just gently reel her in and praise when she gets to you.  Go get the ball or whatever you are throwing ( and experiment for something they really, really want) and hold the dog, tease them with the object and throw it.  Wait a few seconds and then release the dog.  Repeat, with lots of praise.  IF the dog wants to play the game they will soon learn that not bringing the object back, results in no play.  This works best when the dog is full of energy and raring to play.  It works best if this is the only "play" the dog gets to do and of course that doesn't apply to your dogs.  Rex isn't a big fan of retrieving but I did do this with him and he will retrieve but he doesn't get very excited, so I don't really do it much.  What's the point if they aren't having fun?  Rex loves the flirt pole and that's his form of play.  Twister, my JRT, loves to retrieve because I built that desire in when he was a puppy using his natural prey drive.  I agree that some dogs will never enjoy playing fetch and you will just have to find another game.  Try a flirt pole, it's very exciting and it may help increase the prey drive.  I do think Sandy was switched at birth as most terriers are all about the prey drive. lol

Lies, we were posting at the same time with the same method.  :)

Liesje

The way I see it, the toy must be the reward, not clicking and giving treats for fetching the toy.

Liesje

I agree.  I originally replied on another board but I said I really don't see the usefulness of backchaining for fetch.

I agree up to a point, but I had a dog that I had to TEACH to fetch and once I did that, HE *L*O*V*E*D* IT!  To this day (he is 13) he will fetch and fetch and fetch again...He is a terrier, so he loves to chase, but retrieve?  Not quite so much.  I'm not saying all terrier hate fetch, just that they are generally less handler orientated... think about it, dogs send down into the ground to kill vermin were never expected to co-operate with a person to achieve that, or bring the quarry back.  They were bred for their hardy independence, their willingness and capability to achieve an end WITHOUT human direction.

It's like I had to get him past a little hump with the use of additinal rewards, and then the game itself became reward enough.  Does that make sense?  Somehow I had to convey: "if you bring it back I can chuck it again and you can chase it again!" and backchaining can do that for you.

If you have a dog that just watches the toy being thrown and shows little to no interest - well, maybe you're flogging a dead horse.  But if you have a dog that CHASES the toy and seems to enjoy that, but doesn't quite see the point in bringing it back.... well then maybe teaching them the game is worthwhile.

KarissaKS

I think fetch is a game that some dogs enjoy (to an obsession...) and some dogs don't.  You can't force fetch on a dog, outside of treating it as an obedience exercise.  Do do that you would need to backchain.  First treat the dog for looking at the ball in front of you.  Then treat the dog for interacting with the ball.  Then treat the dog for picking up the ball.  Then place the ball a little further away and treat the dog for bringing it a few feet -- etc. etc. etc.

I backchained with Benny.  He would go out after the ball and maybe pick it up and maybe stare at it or he would go out to it then come back to me.  After we worked it and he caught on to the game, he is obsessed.  Any time I bring out one of his special rubber balls he knows what we're going to do.  And he absolutely loves it!  Now to just get him to play outside.  I guess I'm lucky he's small and it's ok to play fetch in the house.

Actually, fetch is using a dogs instinct to bring food back to a den.  We modified the instinct for either our hunting needs or as a game/exercise for the dog,

You can force train a dog to fetch.  Field trial dogs and lots of duck hunting dogs are force taught to retrieve in a specified way.  Style is important in a field trial.

My spaniel retrieves birds with joy and elan, but would not score well in a trial.  She enjoys her style and so do I.  She holds the bird high and prances all the way back. Then she prances around me several times.  She does not enjoy a training dummy tho, and may retrieve once or twice. Then she walks off.

I had a black lab I rescued-he had been abandoned in a rural area because everybody knows farmers love dogs and give them homes.  I got the dog before the farmer called the law.  If you could throw a manhole cover, he would have tried to retrieve it.  No training, just bred into him.  He didn't like feathers or water, which may have been why he was thrown away.  A nice dog.

With hunting dogs, you usually start the pup in a controlled area, like a hallway.  Short retrieves, reward.  Stop after two or three trys, then repeat again later. Avoid failure if possible. It has to be either fun or rewarding.

When you start getting some success, increase the distance, then go to a variable reward schedule. Eventually, go outside. If you have to force the process, the dog is not having fun, so why try.