New puppy may have allergies... need recommendation please

    • Gold Top Dog

    New puppy may have allergies... need recommendation please

    Hello all,

    My new puppy may have allergies.  He has weepy eyes that I have to cleen several times a day and scratches at his paws.  It seems like the hair on his nose is even thinning out a bit.  He hasn't been too bad w/ his paws lately, so that is encouraging.  He is 13 weeks old, 15lbs, will reach about 50-60lbs.  Right now he is on Purina Select for puppies.  This is what the breeder recommended when we got him.  I have known from the start that I want to change his food, however wanted to let him settle in before I did. 

    Before I take him to the vet, I want to see if it is possibly food allergies or even just the winter that is making his skin dry.  We are located outside of Chicago and it has been an extremely cold winter.  There is a possibility that these symptoms are due to the cold or just him acclimating to this region.

    I am considering some different foods that seem to be a little better, however had heard that you have to be careful with the protein/calcium/phosphorus levels in food for a growing puppy.  I have also heard that going grain free is not good for a growing puppy.  Can anyone assist in recommending the most natural, healthy food for a potential allergion sufferer out of the list below or add to it? 

    • Blue Buffalo
    • Orijen
    • Innova
    • Eagle Pack
    • Canidae
    • Nitro Maintenance

    Thanks!!

    • Gold Top Dog

    I feed the Blue to my allergy dog (seasonal and environmental) and he does very well. I also supplement in fish oil when the air gets dry...this helps a lot too.

    I would wipe his paws off when he comes in too - that may help.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Hi all, 

    I have a pup that may have allergies and am considering a better food.  Right now he is on Purina Select for puppies.  He will max out at 50-60lbs.  I am considering some different foods that seem to be a little better, however had heard that you have to be careful with the protein/calcium/phosphorus levels in food for a growing puppy.  I have also heard that going grain free is not good for a growing puppy.  Can anyone assist in recommending the most natural, healthy food for a potential allergion sufferer out of the list below or add to it? 

    • Blue Buffalo
    • Orijen
    • Innova
    • Eagle Pack
    • Canidae
    • Nitro Maintenance

    Also, does anyone know if a potentially grain free food is bad for puppies?

    Thanks!

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    have you figured out what the dog is allergic to? most dog allergies are environmental, not food-related.

    grain-free is fine for a growing puppy but you have to be careful about how much calcium you feed, and how many calories. A lot of the grain-free foods just happen to be very calorie-dense and have a lot of calcium in them. You want a puppy to grow slowly and be very lean.

    • Gold Top Dog

     It is very unlikely that a puppy that young is suffering from food allergies.  I would wait to see how the vet checkup goes before going down the food route.

    • Gold Top Dog

    His eyes could be entropion so have the vet check his eyelids...as well as for anything up with tear ducts etc. The itching could be a contact/inhalant allergy to something new YOU have that wasn't around in his old home...carpet, cleaners, perfumes, scented candles or air fresheners.

    Is he on a flea preventative?

    Have you bathed him at all since he's been home? If not I would do so with a nice oatmeal shampoo.

    Do you smoke?

    Was he recently vaccinated?

    I would also do a scraping for mites as puppies can come up with mange...esp when under stress like being sent to a new home.

    • Gold Top Dog

    The other thing I'd tell you is to be EXTREMELY careful of the word "allergy" and a puppy THAT young.  You do ***NOT*** want a dog to have allergies at that age. 

    Now, there may be foods that are too rich, or things that irritate, but don't lump those into "allergies" -- that would indicate a very poor immune system FAR too young.  Their immune system doesn't even mature til they are 18 months old or so -- so honestly you don't WANT a dog that young being "allergic" to anything at all.  That would indicate major problems ahead.

    Not jumping on you -- but such things can de-rail you to a degree and you don't want a vet jumping to conclusions to put such a young dog on pred or something. 

    As mudpuppy says you want a young dog to be lean, but you want their growth to be appropriately slow, not rushed.  Yep, CONFUSING!!!

    • Gold Top Dog

    Yes, I am extremely skeptical that it would be allergies at this age *and* in winter.  This is also why I haven't taken him to the vet on this.  It doesn't seem to be a major issue or problem for him yet, so I don't want the vet poking around or diagnosing something and ordering shots / meds, when it might be something else.   

    I am thinking / hoping that maybe it is the cold, the new region or perhaps just the food.  He has alot of bowl movements... almost as much as he seems to be eating!  So I know I want to change the food for sure, however I want to give him something good because I know it's not good to change too often.  This breed is a higher energy herding dog, but can be prone to overweight if you're not careful. 

    I agree on the growing at the right pace and lean portion.  So which of these foods would be best in a situation like this?  Or which is simply the best for a growing puppy that will max out at 50-60lbs, in relation to the calories/ calcium levels?  Lol... I am confused!!  Smile

    • Gold Top Dog

     Wellness, Natural Balance, California Natural, and Prairie all have good alternative protein/limited ingredient diets that are high quality if you want to just see if there's a food sensitivity.

    My oldest is allergic to chicken (mildly itchy), so we're familiar with the label checking involved.

    • Gold Top Dog

    so your only so-called "allergy" symptoms are lots of poop? that's not an allergy symptom at all. It either indicates you're feeding way too much food, or the dog is having trouble digesting the particular food you are feeding, or the food happens to be a brand notorious for producing giant piles (big yes on that one), or, if the poop is diarrhea, possibly a parasite or infection.

    Orijen, innnova, and eaglepack all have great reputations and make ok puppy formulas.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Entle...this post will be joined with the one you also have in Nutrition. Please try to keep from double posting whenever possible. It makes it much easier to reply and follow a thread. Thank you.

     

    • Gold Top Dog

     Orijen has a nice grain free puppy food.  I like Eagle Pack's puppy food also - the Holistic is fine and I like the Premium too. 

    I'm not so warm and fuzzy about Canidae anymore - I used to be a Diamond fangirl until very recently when suddenly I, and a couple of my friends, simultaneously and mysteriously started having problems with our performance/working dogs that were on various Diamond Naturals formulas (Canidae is made by Diamond and their "new and improved" formulas are clones of the Diamond Naturals lines).

    Lots of people swear by Innova puppy.  I'd steer clear until you've tracked down the source of your pup's issues.  It's a "busy" food with several triggers for sensitivities (sensitivities are different from allergies, usually involving food, such as a human baby who reacts when their mother eats various foods).  A few examples of typical triggers are dairy, flax, nuts (legumes and tree nuts), and tomato pomace.  It's not the same for every dog.  Sensitivities can be precursors to allergies, but not inexorably. 

    Protect the digestive tract and it will protect your dog from allergy development down the road, unless the genetic predisposition is extremely strong.  You can do this by avoiding the triggers as you find them, and a low-gluten diet can help too.  I'd recommend boosting her immune system with colostrum, a good human-quality 100% colostrum, from first milking.

    Also, daily doses of probiotic are in order here.  Again, a human quality acidophilus with at least one BILLION CFU guaranteed - you'll find this product in a refrigerated section of the health food store.  I like the powder - every morning the dogs line up and open wide for their daily dose - "Down the hatch!" I say and they love it - it tastes great!

    Good luck! 

    • Gold Top Dog

    Thanks all for your suggestions.  The pup has been to the vet twice, both for shots.  On the first visit he had an examination and the vet found everything to be ok.  To answer some questions:

    RW - sorry for the double post.  Will be mindful of that going forward :)  To answer your questions... I don't smoke, he was recently vaccinated, 10 and 12 weeks.  He is not on a flea preventative right now.  I have bathed him twice, both times were necessary and both times I used tearless puppy shampoo and oatmeal conditioner.  He spends the majority of his day downstairs, which is tile / hardwood flooring.  I can't stand strong oders, so no perfumes, scented candles or air fresheners.

    Mudpuppy - His allergy symptoms are runny eyes, itchy paws and coat and the hair on his nose seems to be thinning a bit.  He had more white there when he came to me.  I mentioned that I don't like his food because of all the waste - I assume that can't be any good if its just as much food as he is eating?  I would like to change the food to see not if he is allergic to it, however to see if maybe the combination of the harsh cold winter we have had is causing these symptoms that can seem like allergies.  He has had a fecal done w/ the vet just as part of his initial examination and that was ok.

    Brookcove - Thanks for the suggestions.  I will definitely look into the boosting the immune system and probiotics. 

    Ok, so far, I believe that I have narrowed it down to Orijen, Eagle Pack and Blue Buffalo.  When I go to the store this afteroon, I will compare the three and see what I come up with.

    Thanks again!!

    • Puppy
    "My new puppy may have allergies. He has weepy eyes that I have to clean several times a day and scratches at his paws. It seems like the hair on his nose is even thinning out a bit. He hasn't been too bad w/ his paws lately, so that is encouraging. He is 13 weeks old, 15lbs, will reach about 50-60lbs. Right now he is on Purina Select for puppies. This is what the breeder recommended when we got him. I have known from the start that I want to change his food, however wanted to let him settle in before I did. Before I take him to the vet, I want to see if it is possibly food allergies or even just the winter that is making his skin dry. We are located outside of Chicago and it has been an extremely cold winter. There is a possibility that these symptoms are due to the cold or just him acclimating to this region. I am considering some different foods that seem to be a little better, however had heard that you have to be careful with the protein/calcium/phosphorus levels in food for a growing puppy. I have also heard that going grain free is not good for a growing puppy. Can anyone assist in recommending the most natural, healthy food for a potential allergen sufferer out of the list below or add to it? ◦ Blue Buffalo ◦ Orijen ◦ Innova ◦ Eagle Pack ◦ Canidae ◦ Nitro Maintenance Thanks!!" First, and foremost, take your puppy to the vet. Puppies have fragile, immature immune systems and infections can get out of hand very quickly. I am not a vet. I have three dogs and during my lifetime have had many. I’m on the board and volunteer at a shelter and have worked with hundreds of dogs, many of whom were not healthy. I’ve seen a lot of companion animal ailments and discussed their treatment, diagnosis and prognosis with our staff vet, my own vets and other vets who are personal friends. I spent 25 years in the human healthcare industry. I read and study a lot. I have some insights but that’s all they are, “educated” guesses. First, food allergy is far less common than most people believe and the “pop diagnosis” of food allergy is unlikely since true food allergy presents itself less than 30% of the time---if that. Dogs develop allergies as we do. Many are inhalation allergies, some are contact allergies, some are a combination of both but the most often present as skin issues even if the allergen is inhaled. The single most common cause of itching in dogs is fleas. If a cat is present and not treated for fleas and the dog is not treated for fleas---it’s generally fleas, regardless of the time of year. We have used Frontline for dogs for flea prevention for as long as it has been on the market and have never had a flea issue even when living in Florida and Georgia. Our shelter uses Frontline as does every vet I have ever known or worked with. Take the pup to the vet…sorry to be harping on this issue. Expect the vet to take samples from the affected areas (tape or scraping) and determine what might be present, e.g., yeast/fungus or bacteria. Itching and licking almost always result in some sort of fungal or bacterial infection which makes the itching worse. The possible infection has to be dealt with before it becomes chronic. Determining the underlying causes of the itching is almost impossible once the secondary infection takes hold. Don’t be surprised if it is both bacterial and fungus, both of which need to be treated. One of the most common causes of winter allergy symptoms called atopic dermatitis in dogs is dust mites---after fleas. Remove the source from the bedding, the house and the puppy. Allermyl shampoo by Verbec is rather expensive but correctly used extraordinarily effective in reducing itching caused by atopic dermatitis in dogs. It has virtually eliminated the need for Prednisone with our nine year old double coated Chinook who had had seasonal allergies for years---but it required bathing her every other day during the critical spring and fall allergy seasons in our area. It is not “medicated”, i.e., it doesn’t contain anything that will deal with an infection. We’ve tried them all: oat, aloe, tea tree oil, etc., and nothing works like Allermyl and I’ve found nothing generic like it. Food: while food allergy in a young puppy is less likely, there are lots of foods on the market better than Purina. I’d pass on the Nutro; it’s not much better. Of the others you listed, Orijen is the best in my opinion, followed by Canidae, Eagle Pack, Innova and Blue Buffalo but there are certainly many other top quality foods. In general it takes about two years for a dog’s immune system to reach maturity. During that critical two years the dog develops immunities to a host of organisms which, as some others have pointed out, makes treating a dog under two for possible allergies very tricky because we don’t want to inhibit the body’s natural progress in acquiring and developing immunities to a number of common ailments. An example: Up until recently, vets seldom saw canine viral papillomas (grey, cauliflower-like warts on the lips, eyelids and mouth) in dogs over two years of age because the very act of getting the papilloma stimulates the body to develop immunity---if the papilloma was allowed to run its normal six to twelve week course. But, they’re kind of ugly and some vets really like to make money so they would remove them prematurely (not necessary unless the dog has lots and lots of them, or they become infected) before the body developed the natural immunity. In summary, allergy testing in a puppy is virtually useless. Treatment with antihistimines is questionable because it can inhibit the body’s normal immune response. The more serious atopic dermatitis meds are either steroidal (e.g., prednisone) or immune suppressive (e.g., Atopica) and a very questionable choice for a puppy. On the other hand if infection is present---it has to be dealt with. My choice would be to deal with it topically initially with a medicated shampoo which contains both an antimicrobial (e.g., Chlorhexidine Glucanate) and an anti-fungal (e.g.,Miconazole)---a product such as Malaseb ™. Depending on the severity of the infection your vet may prefer to initially treat with oral or injection antibiotic and/or anti-fungal---or recommend a combination of oral, IV and topical treatment. If you are not comfortable with your vet’s approach, ask around and for goodness sake, switch to another vet. If you vet office has several doctors, try to ensure that they all see your pup at least once. Over decades of having multiple dogs, I’ve gained the experience to make a rational judgment as to when I need to take an animal to the vet and when I can do just as much for the pup as they would do but I always err on the side of caution and if anything unusual occurs that doesn’t respond within a day or two to “home care”---we’re in the car. After some trial and error we are fortunate to have found a vet with a wonderful office staff and a splendid mix of experience and education. If I send them an email tonight describing the condition, I’ll have a call back with a appointment scheduled in the A.M. for the next day. The four primary partners have a combined 100 years of vet practice experience. They don’t mind sitting on the floor to examine a 130 pound dog. They all have multiple dogs and do lots of pro bono work for shelters and rescues. They’ve actually heard of Canidae. One of them is on the board of directors of one of the top vet hospitals in the country (and can get us a consulting appointment with the chief of surgery there within a day). The office staff actually remembers our name and our dogs’ names. If you are not getting that kind of service---switch. Interestingly, they are not remotely the most expensive vet in the area.
    • Gold Top Dog

      I just wanted to say that at his age, food allergies are more likely than environmental allergies; my dog has both. Food allergies can show up before 6 months old, but environmental allergies usually don't affect dogs until they're a year old. If by Purina Selects, you mean ProPlan Selects; that's a very good food in spite of what you may here on this forum.

      By itchy paws; do you mean he's chewing them?