why not homecook?

Usually "fear" and "time" -- I've never needed a topper to get my dogs to eat.  But people are a bit afraid they won't balance the diet (yet we all manage to feed ourselves, you know?) so they rely on kibble for the all-inclusive source, but add  the topper to give the dog at least *some* fresh ingredients.

I homecook because *I* know what goes in their mouths and I don't have to wonder about the meat source and the preservatives.

But I think most people are in just enough doubt of their own abilities that they don't make the full switch.  And they don't have to cook the quantity that they might need to for a full meal.  I only cook once a week, but a lot of people think they have to do this nearly every day (ackkkk!!!!)

It's a big step between kibble plus whatever, and relying entirely on your own efforts for your dogs' nutrition.  I totally understand that it's not within some people's comfort level to do that.  I was there myself for six years of the total nine or ten years I've been using fresh foods.  I went all home prepared/fresh and then back to adding in kibble/commerical, because I just kept doubting myself.

The big difference was when I finally got access to the information I needed to be confident doing it - confident in my own mind.  

This isn't to say that if you lack my geekizoid paranoia, and are comfortable with less structured diets than mine, I think you are killing your dog.  This is just the reason I hung back for so long. 

Regarding "back in the old days" -- well, I'm not all that old, but I can remember when growing up and both sets of grandparents gave their dogs homecooked food.  Which was what most older, rural people that I knew still did back then (in the late 60's and early 70's).  The dogs ate whatever was left from the people food.  Both sets of g'parents were well off enough that they didn't have to pinch pennies at all (in fact, I suppose they would both have been considered rather wealthy by the standards of the time), but they didn't eat tons of meat, and thus the dogs didn't get a lot of it.  They mostly ate soups and stews, beans and veggies, and the dogs got what was left (along with lots of leftover biscuits and cornbread, one of which was served at every meal).  And I remember the dogs getting lots of cooked chicken bones, too.  Not something I'd recommend, but I don't remember anyone being harmed.  The dogs all seemed to do just fine.  But I wouldn't make the assumption that dogs "back then" were getting a lot of meat or anything near what we would consider a balanced canine diet now.  They probably got as much--and maybe more--grains from biscuits and cornbread than many dogs on grocery store kibble do nowadays.

As far as why I don't fully homecook, it's mainly for two reasons.  One is I look at kibble as kind of a multi-vitamin/mineral supplement.  Two is for the convenience.  No worries if I don't have time to get to the store or prepare their homecooked food, and no worries about refusing to eat kibble or getting upset tummies if they need to be boarded and so need to be fed totally kibble for a week or so.  They're used to it.

calliecritturs

Usually "fear" and "time"

Callie hit the nail on the head for my reasons.   I've read too much - WAY too much - and worry about getting minerals "in balance" at the correct ratios.    So I have that "fear".     The second reason is time (and patience !).   I was doing 100% homecooked, using "balanced recipes" developed using Monica Segals processes, for a couple of months.  It would take me about 4 hours every two weeks and my kitchen would be a WRECK afterward.

I now use 30% canned food, 30% kibble (which I reserve for rewards and treats only - kibble never goes into the food bowl and I never use commercial treats), and 30% homecooked.    I don't worry about balance and I feel like my add-ons move the commercial food in the "right direction" - more and better quality protein, fresh uncooked seriously pureed veggies of various colors (yellow, green, orange, purple , brown ;).

 Actually, I've studied old literature and we all remember our pets that died at ridiculous ages like 17, 18, 19 or whatever.  But the bulk of dogs who lived closely with people (as opposed to dogs who were kenneled, or ran loose) suffered and died of what was called back then "normal old age diseases" that today would have us scrambling to find a better diet.  Things like severe inflammatory disease, "nephrititis" - ie renal failure - inflammatory bowel conditions, liver disease.  These were accepted as normal and unavoidable in dogs by the age of seven or eight.

For our generation and the one above, "Hit by car" is probably number one for cause of death for their companion animals.  Before that, say in the fifties and before, I start seeing mentions of the above, and by the thirties losing a pet to CRF at around nine is considered normal.

Today we say, if I didn't lose him at 12 to cancer surely I'd still have him!  My grandmother's dog lived to be 22!  But using "back then" as a model is similar to the problem I have with  using "the wild" for a model.  People weren't interested, for the most part, in ensuring long healthy optimum health for their pets.  So dogs then either survived and reproduced on such diets or they didn't.  Beyond that, Nature really doesn't give a darn.

The reason I switched, finally, was that I felt even kibble wasn't giving maximum nutrition that I could provide.  But I feel queasy going all the way back to randomness again like in the good old days.

I finally came up with my own response to the question of, "I feed my kids, why not my dogs?" ie, just feed them common sense stuff.  

1. My kids eat what I do (except I do WW and they don't) so it's sort of a no-brainer feeding beings of the same species.
2. I don't ask my kids to power up hills, through rough territory in the trees, in and out of ravines (our new place is VERY interesting), around and around pens for twenty minutes, perimeter guard all night then be alert for danger during the day, or do agility or flyball.  They can if they want but if I make them I'm going to jail!  LOL
3. My kids are healthy and not genetically manipulated away from their natural ability to process a wide and relatively random diet.  I have dogs that aren't physically capable of eating enough meat and bones to meet their energy requirements.  I have an itty bitty (two itty bitties now) that does BEST on only meat and bones, so I have to work out a plan that makes sure there's enough balance in there for them.  Later this year I'll be getting a puppy and you bet I'll be getting Mordanna at Better Dog Care to do his or her diet.
   

For me it is fear and time; Its hard enough trying to find time to make nutritious balanced, low fat, wheat free meals for my family!  My son has ADHD and we are on a wheat free diet at home - it is very exhausting with working full time and being a mom to an active 7 years old.  If I were to do that with my dogs too..  well - I just couldn't.

My girlfriend use to make her Maltese home cooked and tell me how good it was for her dog.  She basically made chicken soup for him.  He is now 13 years old and having all kinds of issues due vitamin deficiencies so I also  worry about truly giving them the nutrition that a canine would require.

But for those who do, go for it.  Anytime you can put extra time, effort and thought into any diet it is well worth while.

Thanks for the replies.  I can understand the time issue, but the vitamin/mineral balance thing  I don't get, because once you start you add extras and toppers, then you no longer have vitamin/mineral balance you started with.  Now I'm not necessarily saying that it's a bad thing, but now the "balance" is no longer what is represented on the bag of kibble.  And if the balance does not have to be so precise, then homecooking should not have be something that's so difficult.  Sometimes I think it's the pet food companies that have instilled this fear in pet owners and the veterinary community about the necessity of every meal being perfectly complete and balanced.

I feed kibble and generally give additives for 3 reasons: 1) I have some human food that is about to spoil or I'm sick of eating and 2) the dog needs a specific additive (yogurt after a round of antibiotics, fish for a dry coat, plain white rice after an upset tummy) or 3) the dogs like it and I like giving them something yummy.  I don't give them because I question the balance of kibble (which I do, but not to the extent as some people and not enough to switch to homecooked or feel I have to use daily additives).  I enjoy using kibble because it's easier, it's cheaper for me, takes no time, does not make a mess, and can very easily be transported or portioned out by someone else who is taking care of my dogs.  I don't make a huge point of rotating kibbles, but I pretty much have switched every 3-4 months or so just because of changes in price and availability.  My dogs also get training treats almost every day and I let them lick my plates when I'm loading the dishwasher.

JoAnnDe

Callie hit the nail on the head for my reasons.   I've read too much - WAY too much - and worry about getting minerals "in balance" at the correct ratios.    So I have that "fear".     The second reason is time (and patience !).   I was doing 100% homecooked, using "balanced recipes" developed using Monica Segals processes, for a couple of months.  It would take me about 4 hours every two weeks and my kitchen would be a WRECK afterward.

  I think you're right in worrying about  getting things in balance; dogs need different amounts of nutrients than we do, and over time, perhaps years later, it can affect their health if the diet isn't balanced. Adding some homecooked food to a balanced kibble is a great way to provide some fresh food while insuring they are getting the nutrients they need.

jenns

I can understand the time issue, but the vitamin/mineral balance thing  I don't get, because once you start you add extras and toppers, then you no longer have vitamin/mineral balance you started with.  Now I'm not necessarily saying that it's a bad thing, but now the "balance" is no longer what is represented on the bag of kibble.  And if the balance does not have to be so precise, then homecooking should not have be something that's so difficult.  Sometimes I think it's the pet food companies that have instilled this fear in pet owners and the veterinary community about the necessity of every meal being perfectly complete and balanced

   I homecook Jessie's meals; the recipe was designed by Sabine Contraras (similar educational backround to Monica Segal). I have to follow it very carefully, weighing all the ingredients and adding the precise amount of supplements, which is why it is time consuming. Part of the reason for a carefully balanced diet is the interaction of minerals; too much calcium impedes the absorption of zinc; too much zinc affects copper absorption, ect.  There's nothing wrong with replacing a kibble meal once or twice a week with something you cook but it's not something you'd want to do daily unless you know how to balance it.

First, when we talk about "balance" we need to know what we are talking about.  There's two considerations, absolute values, which depend on the size of the dog (by weight), and values relative to other nutrients in the diet.  For x g of phosphorus there should be x grams of calcium, is one we are familiar with. 

This latter is the one that takes some study to really get in balance.  Yes you can sort of make sure your dog is getting that ratio right, but what if you use beef liver to provide B vitamins - which is super high in copper and binds calcium?  

The good news is that there is a WIDE range you can work with.   Otherwise it would be like sheep which need supplementation even when they do get their completely natural diet - thanks to a thousand years of intense manipulation.

That's why it's possible to supplement kibble with fresh foods and still be fine.  Let's say the optimum level of calciium for a 22 kg dog is between 1.5 and 2.0 grams of calcium per day.  And Phosphorus is 1.0 to 1.3 g.  I have no idea whether that's right and don't want to pull up my Google docs site on this slow machine.  LOL

0.5 grams of calcium is huge - that's enough to actually see, it's a scant pinch.  By comparison, I measure the amount of copper my sheep are allowed per day in micrograms, which can't even really be weighed - you calculate it in parts per million.

So you decide to add an ounce of chicken and three ounces of stewed carrot, celery, and potatoes.  The veggies add almost no minerals at all.  The chicken adds, let's say, 0.3 g of phosphorus. This means you are still fine.  It's pretty hard to mess up the balance of of correctly balanced diet, as long as you stay within the "30%" rule.  And if you use fresh foods you probably won't go anywhere near 30% - the four ounces of fresh ingredients noted about was a huge amount, it would fill an entire normal three dry cup food dish.

On the effort it takes to measure and whatnot.  After a while - it's more time for some people and less for others - you get to where you really don't have to think about it.  You find shortcuts, learn to work more efficiently, find tools that help make it easier.  I wouldn't do this if it were hard!  I have a ton of demands on my time.  The two hours of work this takes is well worth it, though.  But I do know how overwhelming it is at first.  I remember the first time I did a Volhard recipe for my six dogs.  I had to do it in stages!   

brookcove

On the effort it takes to measure and whatnot.  After a while - it's more time for some people and less for others - you get to where you really don't have to think about it.  You find shortcuts, learn to work more efficiently, find tools that help make it easier.  I wouldn't do this if it were hard! 

   You do work into a routine after awhile and it gets easier; I've found your tips in other posts to be very helpful. You are a supreme multitasker.

jessies_mom

You are a supreme multitasker

Boy THATS an understatement!

I put toppings on kibble for my dogs for a couple of reasons...and none are because they they won't eat kibble without it. Bubblegum AND Gibson would eat a bowl of plain kibble and beg for more any day of the week.  But.... one real reason is because I feel that adding REAL FRESH FOOD,,,might help to ward off bloat which is paramount in my breed.    Also...I have an constant thing in my head the kibble is not real food!  For some reason...I never considered feeding kibble until our danes.  They might have gotten cheap canned...or cheap moist...but never kibble because it doesn't seem real.  I don't really feel as much like that now...but kind of..so to add real food I feel much better.  

I want to home cook....and I tried for about 2 weeks.  Gibson was in a growth spurt and I don't think I was giving him enough...he was getting skinnier and skinnier. NOT something I can live with.   I need the confidense of knowing I am not killing my dog, and I wasn't so confident that I was not.   Plus..I spent hours and hours in the kitchen one Sunday afternoon........by the time I was done and seperated the food into individual servings....I had enough for 3 days. THAT was not making it.  So I need to come up with a better plan...and one day I will. 

Really Jenns..... its a heck of a big difference cooking all meals for your dog...and cooking a topping. At least for a Dane.