Underweight, seemingly starving GSD

I second the advice to have Bear tested for EPI. Although the test is expensive it is well worth it especially since Pancreatic Insufficiency is so common in German Shepherds. Our dog had the same symptoms as Bear and it was not until she was tested and treated for EPI that they disappeared. If it is EPI a change in diet will not help because he does not have the enzymes necessary to digest his food. Generally over the counter enzyme supplements are not sufficient to treat EPI. Bear is beautiful. Good luck!

Giardia is a real tough one to get rid of.  I completely agree with the bland diet for 2 weeks.  Then, do your research on the type of food you want to get him.  I'd stay away from Evo, its going to be too rich for his stomach, I imagine.  I had my dogs on Innova and I liked it, but it made my GSD itchy.  I switched to Eagle Pack Holistic and I mix it with Taste of the Wild.  But, don't sweat that too much...find one you like, get it and stick with it for months before thinking about switching again.

Probiotics will help with his digestion...there are products out there (like has been mentioned here).  You can also just feed Yogurt.  I find that add yogurt on a daily basis help my dogs with their digestion and poops are good.  I just give a heaping spoonful.  Make sure its plain and not flavored...I prefer organic, but thats just me.

I saw the picture of Bear...he doesn't seem that underweight...55 pounds is just fine. 

Again, don't sweat this too much...follow Liesje's advice on the bland diet...don't overfeed and relax.  Overfeeding can cause runny stools, not sure if someone already mentioned that.

When my dogs get runny stools (for whatever reason) I'll offer some 100% pumpkin in their meal.  Again, just a heaping spoonful is all you need. 

Good luck and welcome to the board.  Bear is adorable!

I also think EPI testing is really important - a GSD with those symptoms (eats a *ton* and remains very underweight, usually healthy otherwise, diarrhea, other treatments don't really work) is CLASSIC for EPI. And it really isn't that hard to treat, even though it's a chronic condition - enzyme powder (not tablets) generally does the trick.

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/23404.htm

The almighty MVM has some good info for you. What is the consistency of the diarrhea? That can be a big clue.

Would EPI respond to a RX food?  Are the symptoms of EPI sporadic?  I just find it interesting that he's had a couple of firm BMs with the RX food.   

 If he has EPI I'm pretty much screwed.  I've heard it costs upwards of $15 a day ($450/month), which is out of the question for me.

Let's pray that it's not that 

I'll just keep him on a limited ingredients diet for awhile and give him a little yogurt each day and have him continually tested for parasites, and pray for the best.

As far as him not looking to bad in the pictures, it looks worse in real life.  I know he's 55 pounds, but you can count his ribs and a small child could cusp his torso in their hand. You can see his hips and shoulder bones and his vertabrae. 

Nonononono, it's not that expensive.  I don't know where you're getting that info, but if that's the kind of cost your vet is quoting you, run, don't walk, to another one.  The test gets sent out so the cost should generally be in the $100 ish range.  If it would help, I can find out where my vet sent Indie's test, they only charged me what the lab charged and for the blood draw which was $14 I think.  Then, if he'd had it the enzyme powder was something like $60 a bottle and the expense was really finding out what the right dosage is.  You have to start on the heavy side, but then you can ease down to a maintenance level that's not so bad.  

Can you tell us what the RX food he's on is and why the vet thought that might work? 

Okay, I think five cups a day is way too much food for an 8 month old 55 pound dog.  My dog is 70 pounds and gets exactly half that (puppies need more calories than an adult dog, but still I think overfeeding is an issue here).   Over feeding can cause diarrhea, especially with such a rich food. I know when Sophie was a puppy if I overfed her even a little bit (she was on Innova as a puppy) she'd get loose stools.  I'd cut back on the food, if you switch foods do it verrrryyyy slowly, like over the course of a month.

 He's on Royal Canine Limited Ingredient Duck and Potato Formula.  The vet was not specific in why she was switching.  Her only reason was to get him off the food I was giving him (Solid Gold Wolfcub), because she doesn't know anything about dog food.  She actually once told me to switch to Purina, and I simply refused. 

And I'm glad to hear the stuff for EPI isn't as expensive as I had read.  I guess you can't believe everything on the net!  How long does a 60 dollar bottle generally last?

LillianD

Okay, I think five cups a day is way too much food for an 8 month old 55 pound dog.  My dog is 70 pounds and gets exactly half that (puppies need more calories than an adult dog, but still I think overfeeding is an issue here).   Over feeding can cause diarrhea, especially with such a rich food. I know when Sophie was a puppy if I overfed her even a little bit (she was on Innova as a puppy) she'd get loose stools.  I'd cut back on the food, if you switch foods do it verrrryyyy slowly, like over the course of a month.

He's not on rich food.  He's on a limited ingredient RX diet for adults.  The bag even says about 4 cups and the vet told me to feed him a little more.

Slims

 He's on Royal Canine Limited Ingredient Duck and Potato Formula.  The vet was not specific in why she was switching.  Her only reason was to get him off the food I was giving him (Solid Gold Wolfcub), because she doesn't know anything about dog food.  She actually once told me to switch to Purina, and I simply refused. 

 

And I'm glad to hear the stuff for EPI isn't as expensive as I had read.  I guess you can't believe everything on the net!  How long does a 60 dollar bottle generally last?

Hmm, it sounds like she might be trying to see if there's an allergy at work.  If he's doing well on that, you might have some great choices because Natural Balance makes a duck and potato that's worked well for some dogs.  I tried Solid Gold when exploring things for Woobie and it gave him the runs, he did not do well on the richer foods or anything with feathers we discovered.

I know you've gotten alot of advice and opinions thrown at you.  I'm of the opinion that if it ain't broke don't fix it, so if he's doing well on the RX food, I really would hang tight with that for a while and see if he stays steady.  If he can eat that and not have a bout of diarrhea for about a month, I think you can safely rule out parasites.  Probiotics are always a good addition and won't hurt or interfere with anything.  They certainly won't cure diarrhea caused by EPI.  If you can maintain solid BMs on that food for a month and spread out his rations over several small meals per day and see a gain in weight, then I'd try out the Natural Balance or another food that might have a very similar ingredient profile to what's working for him.  Honestly, if I hadn't moved to homecooked, Woobie would have been on Hill's z/d prescription food for life because I never found anything that worked for him besides that and homecooked.  As long as you don't have diarrhea, you can slowly increase the amount he's eating to try to get more weight on.  I got Indie at 39 lbs for a 26" dog, he was SEVERELY emaciated and in trying to get weight on him I had to be careful about feeding too much at once or he would melt down into diarrhea.  He was getting 6 cups a day of a high fiber RX food, but it was spread out over 6 to 8 meals per day so his stomach could handle it.  Try to separate small amounts of food by at least an hour or so.

Hope this helps! 

ETA: When my vet was explaining EPI treatment while we were waiting on Indie's results he estimated that in the beginning a $60 bottle would probably last about 2 weeks until a dosage was determined.  He said once his dog responded to treatment they were able to ease her back so that a bottle lasted him about a month to 6 weeks.  From what I understand there are also some over the counter enzymes that some dogs with very slight EPI have done well with and some human drugs that are less expensive than the veterinary ones but that also work.   But, I wouldn't fork over the money for an EPI test if you have solid stools that are holding steady.  For us, Indie was literally wasting away so time was of the essence.  And I was a bit panicked about his condition, so I had a whole slew of tests run when I first got him. 

If you decide at some point in the future, based on his health, that an EPI test is warranted, there's good info at this site including address and cost for testing (Texas A&M) as well as discussion about some over the counter supplements that are less expensive and sometimes just as effective as well as a discussion about raw pork pancreas feeding for EPI dogs.  http://www.wsgenetics.org/epi.htm 

I sincerely hope you are dealing with an allergy and he continues to do well on the duck and potato! 

One thing I'd suggest is to keep a diary.  Soemtimes this can help the vet sort out symptoms and make connections.

Don't get discouraged when you and your vet start to narrow down the  search, and the answer looks scary.  EPI has a wonderful support network and there are tons of otpions available.

Also, I was interested in the fact that your dog would sometimes get better on antibiotics.  AFter everything your poor pup has been through, IBD is not out of the question.  This is an inflammatory condition (caused by many possible things).  Raw is NOT a good idea if this is at all a possibility.  Home cooked is a fine choice though.

Panacur is available over the counter in the form of Safeguard.  It's the same thing.  You can get it in any pet store now - and it will take care of every parasite out there, pretty much.

Good luck and don't forget about the diary!  You will be amazed at how much more seriously your vet will take you. 

 I went through a similar problem when I adopted one of my Belgian Shepherds. She had coccidia three times over a couple months, which lead her to have almost constant diarrhea. Once she was treated, her digestive system was such a mess that everything came shooting out of her. She was underweight by about 15 lbs when I got her, and dropped another 7-10 lbs while I tried to find a food for her. Oddly enough, after trying every premium dog food under the sun, Purina ONE is what got her tummy to settle down long enough that I could *slowly* transition her to a premium food. And by slowly, I mean over the course of about 6 weeks, starting by just adding a few pieces of new kibble into the Purina. I didn't feel great about feeding her Purina, but I was running out of options and her stool was testing clean. She was eating 3 cups in the morning and 3 cups in the evening just to maintain her (under)weight.

I don't know if this is "recommended" or not, but while she was having diarrhea, I took her off of dog food completely. For about a week, she got white rice and broiled chicken breast or turkey; it seemed to settle her stomach down long enough to have normal stool. Then I started re-introducing kibble (Purina ONE at that time) into the white rice. If she got loose stool, I backed the amount of kibble off and added more white rice. I introduced yogurt into the rice/chicken mix, and continued to add it as I added more kibble in and subtracted rice.

I tried a couple of different premium foods, including SG, Innova, and EVO, but what really did the trick for her was Eagle Pack Lamb/Rice, then Fromm Duck & Sweet Potato. I found a couple of tricks along the way though:

• yogurt - 2 tsp. for her every other day and it keeps her tummy working well (this is just her though - do that to the other Belgian and she'll have diarrhea!)
• pumpkin - 1 tsp for her on the days that she doesn't get yogurt; this has worked well for all the dogs
• Eagle Pack makes a couple of "toppers", Holistic Solution and Holistic Transition. Holistic Solution has been a godsend for us - anytime her stool starts to get a little loose, I add just a pinch to her food and it firms up by that evening.

She is now eating 1.5 cups of Fromm in the morning and 1 cup in the evening, plus yogurt or pumpkin added in, has gained all of her weight back, and is finally holding steady at that weight. She will never be a dog that I can just change her food at the drop of a hat (now, 8 months later, I can introduce a bit of wet food into her dry food without causing a massive blowout) like I can with the other two dogs, and when I rotate foods, it takes weeks, not days, to make the switch.

Good luck - I know how frustrating it can be!

Just a note about RC.  I have not seen the ingredients in their RX formulas, however, if they follow along the same lines as Science Diet, the RX formulas are pretty crappy.

Both RC and SD are lower end middle of the road kind of foods....decent, better than a lot of stuff, but no where worth what they charge.

That said READ THE INGREDIENTS.  The RX food might be helping for now simply because it's limited ingredients, but, RC foods tend to be pretty grain heavy (and that is based on whats on the store shelves that I can read).  Corn, wheat and soy are common allergins, as are ANY grain fragments or glutens.

 The Limited Diets are just what they say they are. I used to work for a vet, and occasionally bought a can of the Limited potato and rabbit for Emma to have a snack while I was working. It's just potato, rabbit, and I think canola oil, with vitamins and minerals.

It used to be made by Innovative Veterinary Diets. 

The Royal Canin ingredients: 

  Dehydrated potato, duck by product meal, natural flavors, potato protein, coprah oil, duck, anchovy oil, soya bean oil, L-tyrosine, DL-methionine, salt, taurine, vitamins  [dl-alpha tocopherol (source of vitamin E), inositol, niacin, L-ascorbyl-2polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), D-calcium pantothenate, biotin, pyridoxine hydrochloride  (vitamin B6) riboflavin (vitamin B2) thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), vitamin A acetate, folic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplTrace minerals [zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite], preserved with natural tocopherols, rosemary extract and citric acid

Natural Balance Duck & Potato ingredients:

Potatoes, Duck Meal, Duck, Canola Oil (preserved with natural mixed tocopherols), Potato Fiber, Natural Flavor, Salmon Oil, Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Taurine, L-Lysine, L-Carnitine, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6), Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Riboflavin (Vitamin B-2), Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Folic Acid.

To my novice eyes, the NB looks like better quality (at least duck is the 3rd ingredient) and probably a lower price.   Still wouldn't be happy if it was me that I'd be paying primarily for potatoes.   

ETA: Curiosity drove me to cost compare.  8 lb. bag of RC from PetFoodDirect.com  $26.79,  17 lb. bag of NB from same place $29.99.