Nutrition/Supplementation advice.

You can get quite a few fish oil products these days that have concentrated DHA. 

Actually both EFAs have a role in nervous system health, but it is EPA that is more important, since EPA is a precursor to DHA and by itself plays a role in mood stabilization.  I have a mood disorder and my doctor has recommended taking a product that provides 1200 mg of EPA or more - and I can really tell the difference.  Not to mention my hair is much happier, too. 

Seapet makes a product that is very concentrated - a teaspoon provides 1500 mg of EPA plus 1000 mg of DHA - meaning that a medium sized dog can get more than enough EPA+DHA from just half a teaspoon.  I was doing the capsules because they were convenient in terms of storage and my dogs enjoyed taking them, but then I got a batch that was rancid, I think.  I couldn't tell or smell it, but suddenly all the dogs stopped taking capsules. 

when you say he does "three hours of retrieve training" what does that mean exactly? he just runs wildly after a ball for three hours? that might make him hyper right there- he's super-fit, he's running wildly, but not working if you see what I mean. Does he get walked regularly? walking doesn't do much for physical exercise for a large dog but the mental stimulation and the getting out and about is important for dogs. Hanging out and playing at home just doesn't have the same effect. Also choosing a dry kibble on the basis of whether the dog gobbles it up isn't a good idea. you wouldn't let your kids eat cake and ice cream instead of green beans just because they gobble it up.

Hanging out and playing at home just doesn't have the same effect.

Hey-hey!  My dogs beg to differ!  Just kidding, I know what you mean.  We tell people who have BCs the same thing.  They love and crave repetitive activities but too much is not good for them.  Shaking it up is much better for their minds and bodies both.  When I lived in the city, I did directed retrieves, stay before fetching, freestyle frisbee combined with distance tosses, and multiple disk exercises.  I did some obedience and agility training too.  We went for a walk once every evening too, usually, but the dogs rarely really needed it - it was more for us, relaxing and stretching our legs after a day in the office.

 We get the dogs out about three times a week for a couple mile walk, they love the interraction at the dog park every weekend, and both are getting ready to start hunt test training. It's not as if they do nothing at all, and are house or back yard bound. I think they love rides in the truck more than anything, but they'r not joyriding at $4 a gallon!!!! I'm debating doing a raw diet and including venison, fish, and lamb, and throwing in some brown rice as a cheap filler. 

 It could be that your dog needs daily exercise;  Jessie will be 10 in a few months and is walked 3 to 5 miles daily, longer on weekends. That includes some running. If you decide to feed a raw diet and want to be sure it's balanced, Monica Segal has a booklet with balanced raw diets and it's only $6.95;

http://www.monicasegal.com/catalog/product.php?cPath=25_26&products_id=81 

 Well, that's gonna have to be enough exercise. Between two jobs, kids, three decent walks a week, field training sessions twice a week, and regular obedience work on the other nights, it doesn't leave much more time. It's more than most at this point. That is why I'm looking to make the most of my diet options. I appreciate the info on Monica's raw diets though.

 As you start field trial training there should be stuff you can do in the yard a couple times a day.  I had a friend with advanced level trained labs and all he did to keep them tuned up between formal working sessions (maybe once a week or every other week), was about five minutes of obedience/directed retrieval work - just with the dummies or bumpers a dozen yards or so away.

What you are talking about doing is a combo diet.  That's what I do for my performance dogs.  It's smart if your dog can tolerate the grain because you can up the calories without having to worry about high mineral levels (phosphorus and calcium in particular).  But also because your dogs will be going pretty hard, you'll want to make sure you've got things balanced.  It's not hard, dogs are very tolerant of wide ranges of nutrition, but there's some things - like zinc and copper - that are often missing in homecooked/combo diets and you'll want to supply if you are pushing your dogs regularly.

A lot is explained in the booklet jessies mom mentioned.  She may have a booklet on feeding labs or performance dogs.  I know she discusses it in her book Optimal Nutrition.

Good luck!  I used to have a dog that was kind of "out there" mentally and going to raw/combo helped her a lot, though what helped more was when I got sheep and I added that work to her training regime (she was already doing competitive disc dog, agility, and flyball).

jessies_mom

Jessie will be 10 in a few months and is walked 3 to 5 miles daily, longer on weekends. That includes some running.

Oh, Janice. . .you are soooo fortunate that she can still do that with you.  Cherish every single second, trust me. 

Sorry to go OT

Lori

 Thanks Becca. Correct me if I'm wrong about this, but added liver, or even old dessicated liver would replace the lost zinc and copper from the diet, no? I'm committed(or aught to be) to doing right by this dog. He is otherwise a physically gifted animal, and possibly the most devoted dog I have owned. I've hunted quite a bit with friends dogs with mixed success, and Bo just wants to outwork all other dogs. I am told that this is less common in the largest labs. I just need him calm enough to spend time in a cramped duck blind so I don't get the urge to strangle him! He's a bit behind in training but we're making up for that. We'll be inside quite a bit this week as long as this hurricane doesn't blow our roof off, so I'll have time to do some reading:) Thanks for your imput.

 PS.

Is that a Kuvacz or a Great P. in that photo?

Tully is a Maremma sheepdog - he's a baby in that photo, only two.  He's four now and much heftier!  I'm going to get an updated sig done soon (I'm taking the pics this weekend, Kate!)

Thanks Becca. Correct me if I'm wrong about this, but added liver, or even old dessicated liver would replace the lost zinc and copper from the diet, no?

Only oysters have anywhere near enough zinc, and then you'll be taking about 160 calories from the diet that adds nothing else but phosphorus and some iron (which a dog on red meat and bone won't need).  Beef liver will add B-vitamins, but the problem is that if you rely on beef liver for the b-vitamins (and some other stuff you get from organ meat) you get too much copper.  Pork liver is better but then you go short on copper.  Ditto with chicken/poultry livers.  Kidney allows you to get a better balance but it's still a little short.  I choose to go short and add supplements.  You can learn how to do this from the Monica Segal books, and/or other reading material you'll find referenced.  Check out the Dogwise section on dog diets!

Wow! Cool, I feel a bit foolish. Beutiful dog! I had a Great P. once so I just figured.....I had only heard of a Maremma maybe once. How do they do in the heat? My GP used to suffer!

 They have much lighter coats - they work in the mountains in Italy so they can grow a very weatherproof coat in the winter.  But Italy is also very temperate so their coats shed out and they have short manageable coats in the summer.  Tully gets a little hot when it gets really warm (upper nineties to 100) but don't we all?

willowchow

Oh, Janice. . .you are soooo fortunate that she can still do that with you.  Cherish every single second, trust me. 

 Thanks Lori; Today we walked about 8 miles and she does better than me.

well no wonder he's hyper. My dogs would be bouncing off the walls with that little exercise.