Martingale collar with a chain - legal?

You cant in AKC not sure about UKC.  They do have the regs on line on their website and the search engine they use is very efficient.  I personally would use a buckle or a slip collar (training collar).  I really like the nylon collars.

I guess that I should try her on a chock and see how she does.  I know that she equates that pinch collar with obedience class and gets into that mode.  Maybe the choke would be the easiest transition for her.

doesn't it bother you that your dog may only be obedient when wearing special equipment? part of "proofing" training is to change everything that is not-really-relevant and making sure the dog still understands the commands no matter what. Maybe you should start practicing obedience commands in a variety of different collars? and in no collars? What are you going to do when your dog slips his collar and runs out into traffic? just let him die, because you trained him to obey only while wearing a particular type of collar? 
Keep in mind chokes are actually much harsher than prong collars. And can and do cause injury to dog's necks.
I think all obedience competitions should require the dog be in a flat buckle collar only. If you need "correction" or "special" equipment, you're not ready to show.

Can't believe I'm reading another post about this..


Is it legal??? Who cares? It's your dog, it's your FRIEND. It's sertainly not ethical.

Come on.. GET REAL! Equipment can't make your dog more obedient. Clue is to work on the relationship.

The question is legitimate,,, the original post was a question about what collars were allowed in AKC companion dog events. 

I used nylon martingales on both basenjis for their RN titles.  I asked the first two judges we showed under, didn't bother to ask the next two.  None of the judges had a problem and collars are very obvious on a basenji!
 
Here's a link to what I used:
[linkroductCode=1]http://www.whitepineoutfitters.com/catalog_category.cfm?queries_index=index6&title_bar=Soft%20Web%20Collars&roductCode=1[/link]>http://www.whitepineoutfitters.com/catalog_category.cfm?queries_index=index6&title_bar=Soft%20Web%20Collars&roductCode=1]http://www.whitepineoutfitters.com/catalog_category.cfm?queries_index=index6&title_bar=Soft%20Web%20Collars&roductCode=1[/link]
 
 
 
SSF-
I'm confused.  Is the martingale you're having a problem with?  This is what I regularly use for a walking collar.  They are not left on the dogs and are properly adjusted so that they will not choke the dogs.  But neither can the dogs slip out of them.  Trust me, the last thing you want is a sighthound that slips his collar!

Thank you for the information those of you who are familiar with obedience tests.  I appreciate the information.  I transitioned to a choke chain, was very careful to keep her leash very slack during her test. and hardly had to correct her at all with it. 

 Wow, Mudpuppy.  Over react as usual and jump down my throat, why don't you.  My setter is normally very well behaved in any collar, and off lead, out when we are casually walking, but in an obedience trial your dog must be focused completely on you.   You seem to be such the expert in canine behavior and you aren't acquinted with obedience trialing?  hmmph.  The correction that you would give would be more of a "k'ching" pop that would hardly close on the dogs neck.  The ideal would be to trial in a flat collar. but as a very green novice, sometime to keep her focus, the sound of the chain brings her back to me. 

When we are in class or doing a fun match, while wearing a prong, my dog is ever dilligent and performs extremely well.  When I do agility we wear a very light weight nylon clasp collar and she knows it is agility time and also performs well.  Prongs are not legal to use during an actual obedience test or and with a very green novice dog, you may still need to give a correction to keep their focus.  My dog responds well to just the sound of the chain on a martingale.  I would rather use a martingale than a choke, but if I'm careful with the choke and am careful with her corrections, it's a place to start.

SSF.  Do you do obedience or agility trials with you dog?  

Diane303-
 
I have no idea how UKC trials go, but what I did with my rally trials, is to take my martingale to the briefing.  After the judge finished briefing I asked her if this collar was allowed.  It was, but I also had a backup just in case.

agilebasenji:  Sounds like a plan.  Basenji's rock!  Ever do lure coursing with her?  They are very independant creatures, aren't they?

I have a little Llewellin with a very strong prey drive.  She's is doing great, by the way!  During a UKC fun match,  she was honoring another dog's test.  She usually does this very well (SSF and Mudpuppy, this is a down stay - off lead - the handler is off the floor - while another dog is healing).  There were little dots of sunlight flying around the floor from the window.  She couldn't resist and was up and pointing at the dots (lol)  I did get her focus back and she finished - but that is a high, large range, prey driven hunting dog for ya!  She loves agility and total does her job there with very few distractions.  Thankfully we've never had a bird venture unto the course.  She really loves agility.  

agilebasenji: Sounds like a plan. Basenji's rock! Ever do lure coursing with her? They are very independant creatures, aren't they?

 
Yep, yep, yep on all accounts.  My brindlewonderkid took BIF (best in field) on his first run after his JC test.  Actually he took BIF the first and third time he ran, took a 5 point major the fourth.  I didn't run him for BIF that time as we were doing agility the next day.  And, the day after he got his second BIF, he took a 5pt breed BOW (best of winners - conformation stuff). 
 
Tri-ing basenji lacks his majors for a field Ch in AKC.  (Majors were really hard to find when we were running.)  But both boys have their ASFA FC. 
 
Both are now retired from coursing.  The brindlewonderkid turns 10 in a few days.  As much as he would LOVE to still course, I know he would not quit when he should, so I get to decide.  (The will both keep the bunnies out of the yard though.)

ORIGINAL: diane303



Wow, Mudpuppy.  Over react as usual and jump down my throat, why don't you.  My setter is normally very well behaved in any collar, and off lead, out when we are casually walking, but in an obedience trial your dog must be focused completely on you.   You seem to be such the expert in canine behavior and you aren't acquinted with obedience trialing? 

You may not have liked mudpuppy's tone, but the point of the post was not objectionable.  If you proof your dog's behavior, you would not need to use a choke or a martingale at home, nor would you need to correct the dog in the ring.  I also would love to see the rules change to prohibit slip collars, especially for novices, who often overcorrect a dog that is just inexperienced, not willfully disobedient. 
I think mudpuppy does have a grasp of how things are in the obedience ring, but would like to see them change.  Many people share that view, myself included.  Novices must show dressage horses in a snaffle (mild) bit.  They don't graduate to a Weymouth (double bridle) until they have the finesse to use it - at a higher level.  Makes sense to me.
The idea that a dog cannot be "completely focused on you" unless wearing a choke chain is absurd.

Jees, I just asked if I could transition my dog from a training prong collar to a martingale collar for the Novice obedience test instead of using a choke.  During a test, the collar is use to remind her to keep her position and not to look at Dad sitting on the edge of the floor.  It is not used harshly. ! know that even Mudpuppy condones the use of prong collars during training.  What gives?

Mudpuppies comment had absolutely no relevence to my question.  It was a gross generalization and had nothing to do with obedience competition.  I don't understand why it is OK for Mudpuppy to attach me for a very simple legitamate question and it isn't OK to defend myself?

Dressage competition is not a really good comparison to Obedience tests. You ride the horse and physically direct the horse through subtle hand and body movements that can be used through out the test.  In obedience testing, you cannot touch your dog and your cues are very limited.  The only cues you can give are at the beginning or change of exercise.  You must depend on the constant focus and understanding of your dog.  Not easy for a young critter (especially a sporting dog.  Herding dogs are a bit better at focus, I'd say)   But in both novice levels, you must remind the green dog/horse occasionally to keep its position and continue to listen to you for cues with the use of a mild correction.  In upper level dressage, you transition to a more severe bit(s) to make you cues more specific and keep the horse within a correct frame.  These bits are never used harshly or to actually restrain the horse but can you imagine doing a 3rd or 4th level test with no bit or bridle?   In dog obedience, the use of the collar become less and less important as the dog advances. 

Again, my dog is very trustworthy in her agility collar and at home. We practice off leash constantly.  Although like most medium to long range field bred sporting dogs and hounds (not necessarily short range hunting dogs that are bred to stay close to the hunter like most retreivers) , you can never expect 100 percent recall or hard focus out in the field, especially if a rabbit or bird come by.

agilebasenji:  You rock!  We did a bit of lure coursing a dog camp last year. They had a short course set up for all breeds.  What a hoot!  My pointer loved it, but she was outclassed by the sight hounds.  My setter was still a bit more intreged by the birds in the field.