Natura uses feeding tests?

To illustrate my point about carbs, Eukanuba Premium Performance has 29% carbs and Cal Nat Chicken and Rice has 45.90 percent carbs. If someone came on this forum or most any other, asking which one they should feed, all of us "nutrition experts" would read the ingredient lable and say Cal Nat, has less fillers and more meat and then would continue to bash the Euk as being all corn food and very little meat. As a matter of fact, Innova is 41% carbs and Iams is 38%. Now don't get me wrong I like some of the Natura products and EVO is very low in carbs and at least they post there nutrient profile on there website so a true comparison of foods can be made. But my main point is many of these companies that get bashed for high carbs in reality are not high carb foods at all.

 
This is a case of not being able to see the forest for the trees,   Or maybe in this case I should , you see the elm, the maple, the oak, but miss the pine and the sycamore, therefore do not see the entire forest.

To illustrate my point about carbs, Eukanuba Premium Performance has 29% carbs and Cal Nat Chicken and Rice has 45.90 percent carbs

 
When I read this, it sounded all wrong and as it turns out, it is. It clearly states that the CALORIE DISTRIBUTION for carbs is 29%. That's WAY different than it BEING 29% carbs.
Here's the GA:
Caloric Distribution
Protein 27%...Fat 44%...Carbohydrate 29%
Guaranteed Analysis


.text { font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; color: #000000}





Nutrient
(percent)

Crude Protein not less than
30.0%

Crude Fat not less than
20.0%

Crude Fiber not more than
4.0%

Moisture not more than
10.0%

Vitamin E not less than
140 IU/kg

L-Carnitine not less than
40 mg/kg*

Docosahexaenoic Acid not less than
0.10%*

Omega-6 Fatty Acid not less than
3.35%*

Omega-3 Fatty Acids not less than
0.45%*
 
 
So, when you do the calculations, it's actually, like, 36% carbs.
 
Now, compare another performance food (apples to apples)
 




[size=1]Crude Protein
min.
30.0%[/size]

[size=1]Crude Fat
min.
20.0%[/size]

[size=1]Crude Fiber
max.
4.5%[/size]

[size=1]Moisture
max.
10.0%[/size]




431 ME (Kcal/cup)
This is EP Power formula. It is actually less carbs than the Eukanuba at 35.5

Renee, what's the formula for figuring that? I'd like to calculate the carbs of some foods and when I used the example herehttp://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/dm.html I came up with 40% for the Euk.

I'm really glad I didn't bore everyone.  I typed all that and thought, dang, no one's going to give a flying flip.  But deleting is hard for a writer - that's why there are editors!  []

Hunters manipulate this natural cycle also when they set out high protein forage stands or feed in the fall - the deer crave this during rut.  High protein levels "trick" the body into thinking times are good, and more energy goes into reproduction in prey animals.  I'm not as sure what it does for predator animals - that's why there are animal nutritionists!  []

Kelly,

I figured it on an "as fed" basis, not DM. This is the way I learned to do it in school.
Take all the %'s listed on the GA and subtract out from 100. The balance is carbs, you can then convert to DM if desired, but as I said, I figured it on an "as fed" basis, so your figure of 40% may be right with the formula you used. Your formula, removes the moisture and mine includes it. For a general comparison, this works, but if you get technical, then you need to do a DM calculation. I did a DM conversion of my figure of 36% "as fed" and it comes up to 40%

Hunters manipulate this natural cycle also when they set out high protein forage stands or feed in the fall - the deer crave this during rut. High protein levels "trick"

 
Now, I'm getting hungry. Several co-workers of mine hunt. So, at least once a year I get some deer meat. Once, I was given some chili-grind elk and deer. This last winter, I had backstrap. Of course, to fix that, I've got Ted Nugent's cookbook "Kill It and Grill It!"

OMG, Ron!!!! You EAT BAMBI??? lol. I love venison and so do my dogs! Just have to make sure there is enough to go around, as they can get pretty "snippy" if one runs out before  the others.

I'll have to pm you a funny and completely true story.

Backstrap is the best!

Do you know if there are other factors in figuring carbs? For instance, this food:

Moisture 10.0 %
Protein 27.0 %
Fat 16.0 %
Fiber 3.80 %

would have a as fed % of ~57 or DM of ~63 (right?), but the manufacturer says 34.30% carbs.

ORIGINAL: sooner

Backstrap is the best!

Do you know if there are other factors in figuring carbs? For instance, this food:

Moisture 10.0 %
Protein 27.0 %
Fat 16.0 %
Fiber 3.80 %

would have a as fed % of ~57 or DM of ~63 (right?), but the manufacturer says 34.30% carbs.

 
Kelly,
This is the only way I was taught to figure it.
I come up with 43.2 (as fed) or 48% (DM) when I do the math. Just subtract the main %'s (protein, fat, moisture, and fiber or any others that are substantial) from 100. I don't think there would be ANY way that it could be 34.3%. That would be a high performance food and the protein and fat would have to be WAY high (like 30/20) just to be close.
 
Some companies will add ALL of the %'s, (like ash, calcium, phos, etc) even the .003% (for example) of even the most minute ingredients to try to lower (or make it look lower) the carb %. To me, that is such a small amount, that it really is irrelivent.

Oops, I was subtracting it from 100 twice.

Anyway, it's the Healthwise Lamb & Oatmeal. they must've taken every possible percentage and subtracted it.

They must have, if you do that for Innova dry, it's like 23% carb, lol. Most of the time the vitamins and minerals just don't get subtracted. They are just to insignificant to bother with and don't make up a real % of the kibble.
 
But I would say that this kibble is well within reason on the carb % when compared to other foods in it's catagory. Just not sure about trusting what the company says if they are misrepresenting the GA.

Jessiemom - Monica Segal wrote a diet for Holly that is raw Buffalo and cooked buckwheat, some oil, some cod liver oil and wild salmon oil and calcium.  We're on week 2 and it may take 8 weeks to see improvement. She is stilll scratichng her ears except the day and day after I clean them.

It must be hard finding raw buffalo; it's expensive too. I sure hope it helps Holly.

There's a buffalo farm in NC!  they always have a concession stand at the fair.  A whole buffalo would be a huge investment but if I had a dog that HAD to be on it, getting it straight from the farmer would be much cheaper than piecemeal from the grocery.